Here's an excerpt from The Ringer in 2018:
For Shanahan, Garoppolo’s appeal was rooted in his mechanics. Most quarterbacks’ throwing motion involves an exaggerated follow-through that ends with the body leaning forward and the right foot lifting off the ground. Garoppolo’s release, meanwhile, features a stationary back foot; rather than forcefully stepping into throws, he creates torque with his upper body and hips. “All the great dropback quarterbacks, that, to me, is an absolute,” Shanahan says. “You’ve got to be able to play like that and throw like that.” As Shanahan explains the difference, he gets out of the chair in his office and mimics a violent twist involving his torso. He notes that by throwing from a stationary position, QBs are able to elude interior linemen who wreak havoc in a crumbling pocket. “Anyone who doesn’t throw like that, they’re going to blame the O-line all year,” Shanahan says. “I’m not going to name 100 quarterbacks who are like that, but their O-lines are always not good. The guys who can throw like this, when the O-line’s bad, as long as you have good people out on routes, you can get rid of it.”
I bring this up as the concern for the 49ers offensive line grows among the faithful. We know, Shanny values the OT and Center positions while the OG's not so much. Does this stem from his belief that it's the quarterback and his mechanics that can mitigate such weaknesses against interior pressure? I think it does. The bigger question to me is, does this philosophy disqualify all quarterbacks that do not possess the kind of mechanics he covets? Thus far, it would seem so.
Razor,
ReplyDeleteAgree. Kyle's offense starts with the stretch run scheme where athletic downfield blocking takes precedence over anchoring pass pro. Trent Williams is a unicorn who can do both. Now add Kyle's decision to spend more money on tackles and center which automatically means lower-paid guards. (This is also the reason why ShanaLynch will not draft guards high ).
Quick decision making and release and mid-range accuracy will continue to be priorities for a QB in Kyle's offense. Quick decision making has the problem with Beathard although I notice he has improved in this regard from 2017. But that's not his natural game.
On a different note, the blog is looking really good. Couple of thoughts. Is it possible to make the font size in the comment box closer to that in the main post? Also, the banner is taking up the full screen (needing immediate scroll down) -- can it be made smaller? I see this issue in both Chrome and Firefox -- so it's probably not my browser.
Hey, thanks, Mood. I'm looking at the settings and I don't see any option for comment font size. Not sure how to make the banner smaller either. Maybe, MWD knows how to rectify these issues or someone else can help. I won't give up though trying to make it as reader friendly as we can. Thanks for your patience.
DeleteThis blog is turning out very well. Keep up the good work.
DeleteI agree. This is my first time here after getting the address off the PD and you have done a great job with it Razoreater. Thanks for taking it on so we have a place to go.
DeleteHey, thanks and you're welcome.
DeleteAs much as people have made from Kyle's comment that he has started to change/ adapt what he looks for at QB, I don't think it has changed the fundamentals of what he wants. This is a core aspect of the QB he is after - they need to be able to make an accurate pass off platform in a muddy pocket.
ReplyDeleteAs for the OL - I don't think it is a case of not wanting a really good OL, just more a case of believing he can have a very good OL with two good OTs and a good centre, and decent enough OGs. And yes, that you need a QB that can make plays without a perfect pocket.
Scooter, did you notice any improvement this year wrt, Watson's performance in the pocket?
DeleteI wouldn't say there was any drastic improvement. He's never been bad from the pocket. But he does have a tendency to hold the ball too long (which is why he takes so many sacks), and I don't know how that would play with Shanahan.
DeleteI've come to the conclusion that he would not have the interest required to obtain him, and that Mac Jones is the one with the Shanny Bullseye on his back. His mechanics are as close to what Shanny covets as far as I can tell.
DeleteYep, agreed. And I have also come to the belief that they won't use pick 12 on Jones either, which means they probably won't get him. I suspect it will be a later round QB addition, and they will effectively put off the QB decision to next year.
DeleteAccording to, WalterFootball out of five teams sourced, three had a fourth-round grade on Jones, one had him on the bubble between Rounds 2 and 3, and one team gave him a second-round grade. An AFC general manager said the second round was too high for Jones, calling him a mid-round talent, so opinions vary on Jones across the league.
DeleteI know you're not high on, Davis Mills, but I found this to be an interesting stat; Mills’ 2.39-second average time to throw on non-screens, RPOs and play-action passes was the fourth-fastest in the nation — even edging out Trevor Lawrence. And on such throws, he earned an 84.0 passing grade.
Stanford ran only a few concepts and yet I saw him making some really glaring mental errors all the same. He has nice physical pocket QB traits, but I really query whether he'll ever master the mental side of the game.
DeleteI know Stanford runs a pro-style offense, and you need to be smart to get in. Maybe with more mental reps and coaching that part of his game could grow. Here's what, Tony Pauline had to say at his workout: “He’s a big, strapping kid. He’s got an NFL arm. He can spin that ball. He threw tight spirals, he threw passes that had great speed. The deep passes he delivered with great speed. He was very accurate for the most part. Of the 90 passes he threw, I counted only three or four that were outside of the pass-catching radius of the receivers he was throwing to.”
Delete“Some team is going to fall in love with him because he seems like a coachable guy,” Pauline concluded. “He’s got great upside. He’s someone, who if he’s coached correctly and someone develops him and develops those tools, I think you could have a really good, next-level quarterback on your hands with Davis Mills.”
I might be way off, but it would not surprise me to see Mills go before Trask.
It's a pro style offense, but if you watch them it just seems like they are running the same concepts over and over. Four verts, four curls, etc. He makes too many mental errors/ bad passes for that. Not trying to suggest he isn't smart, but I am worried it is more book smart than field/ heat of battle smart.
DeleteBut he does have the physical tools. No question there. If he works out the mental part then you have something.
Mills has attempted less than 450 passes in his college career which I think is the biggest knock on him. He has been hampered over the last two seasons (especially last season) by an O line that lost most of its starters to injuries. This year the pass pro at Stanford was serviceable. Also this year for the first time he had a good receiver in Feheko. Stanford's passing game may be limited but Shaw burdens his QBs with a massive run-heavy playbook that he expects the QB to master.
DeleteI have watched every game Mills has played and I am not sure what his "mental errors" that Scooter sees. He did not throw a pick in his first 4 games this but threw 3 in the game against UCLA. However he also threw for 428 yards and 3 scores and led Stanford to a victory in double overtime. Clearly the UCLA game was not his best but he seems resilient. Stanford went 4-1 this season with him as the QB (he missed one game because of a false positive COVID test to someone he came in contact with).
Steven Baker, who was agent Jeff Garcia's agent, thinks Mills is good enough to be drafted in the second round. As an side, I don't know if you guys have heard about Baker's story about Bill Walsh inviting him to watch Tom Brady's workout along with Todd Husak (Baker was his agent).
Difficult to say how any college player not drafted in the top 20 will do in the NFL, but Mills has a good chance to have a solid career NFL at least as a backup if he can stay healthy, IMO.
Mood, I recommend watching Tim Jenkins breakdowns of the QBs. He does a good job (imo) running through what they do well, and what they don't. And as a guy that made it to an NFL camp and is now a QB coach, he has some credibility. Kind of like the Eric Crocker of QBs. Obviously that doesn't make him right or all knowing, but he does have some interesting insights.
DeleteRegarding Mills... lets just say Jenkins opened my eyes to a few things I wouldn't have otherwise seen.
It's taken awhile but good to see you guys have finally realized there isn't going to be a drastic change at the QB position. As much as some want to believe Shanahan wants to move on from JG he is the kind of QB he wants although not without flaws. Watson will cost way too much in compensation and so will trading up in the draft. My guess is they either sign somebody like Dalton or take a QB in the middle rounds. If JG gets hurt or plays poorly this season they move on next year when the salary cap hopefully increases to a workable number to bring in a replacement.
DeleteYeah, but not because the team is sold on JG.
DeleteScooter, I see what you mean with, Mills. His mental processing and mechanics probably disqualify him from much interest by, Shanny.
DeleteYeah - did you watch Tim Jenkins film analysis? I find his insights good. As an aside, Wilson is his QB1 in this draft (in part because he didn't love the film on Lawrence).
DeleteI'm not willing to dismiss Mills as a guy Shanahan would be interested in (he's got some of the tools), but I just feel like he has a longer way to go than others believe. Given what I am hearing from Tony Pauline, I suspect he will be drafted earlier than I feel he should.
Yes. It's always a bonus when you have a guy with that kind of experience behind the coaches tape and highlight clicker.
DeleteScooter,
DeleteI found it hard to watch this rather unwatchable, shoddily produced video but I manage to watch the whole thing. Unfortunately, these sort of cherry picked-plays are often out of context of the game. This chap shows most of Mills' bad plays and only a few of his good throws -- very Grant-like.
I don't watch much college football and so I have no idea if Mills is #5 or #10 QB in this draft. He's definitely not in the top 4 and is lacking experience. I think he's a solid thrower of the ball and has room for growth. I think he's a good mid-round prospect and will likely be drafted before the 5th round -- maybe by a team like the Patriots looking for value.
I agree Jenkins film production quality isn't great, but he's only been doing them since November.
DeleteRegarding cherry picking plays, that is what every film analyst does. To break down every play and video it would take forever and nobody would have the time to watch it. So every analyst shows a selection of plays that they feel best demonstrates the player in the time they wish to devote to it. In the 2 or 3 games he watched he found a lot of areas he had concerns with and used a sample of examples. Just like he did with the good plays. And he gave (imo) good explanation of what he liked and disliked, which clearly comes from a point of understanding QB play at a much higher level than I ever will.
Scooter_McGFebruary 23, 2021 at 12:29 PM
DeleteYeah, but not because the team is sold on JG.
Not sold because of his injury history but they like him more than you think imo. I know they haven't altered his contract but everything else they've done shows they want him. Not signing Brady, not drafting anybody, saying he's their guy which was confirmed again yesterday by Lynch. I agree that there is still some questions about his inability to stay healthy in two out of the three full seasons he's been there, but as I've said all along, I think they like him a lot as a fit for this offense and the belief that Shanahan feels he's limiting his offense isn't supported by anything other than speculation.
Lynch said he's the starter if he's healthy and focused more on needing to shore up the backup spot which is exactly what I've believed to be the strategy moving forward. Now is not the time to gamble on trading up for a rookie or mortgaging the future for anybody. They need to work out the cap issues as much as possible to keep as many FA's as possible and have a good draft. If Garoppolo gets injured again or struggles, you focus on replacements next year when the cap hopefully goes up a decent amount and some other options become available.
I understand why you feel that way notanexpert, but for mine there really is no good explanation for not reworking his contract last season to free up money if they really believed in him as strongly as you think they do. Or for why before yesterday the word out of Shanahan and Lynch was, effectively, he's our starter unless we find an upgrade (you simply don't say that about a guy you fully believe in - ever).
DeleteSo for me, while they like him as a guy that can run the offense efficiently and effectively... I'm of the firm belief they also want an upgrade. But not to the point they are willing to do anything to get it, or that they feel it is easy to find one.
As I said I don't think they are completely sold due to his injury history. That would be a reason you don't restructure a contract. Shanahan and Lynch also haven't said he's the starter unless they find an upgrade. Shanahan said they are always looking to upgrade every position on the team and said this:
Delete"We better have a very good answer if you're going to find something better than that because Jimmy's shown in one year that he's a guy that can take us to the Super Bowl, and I also think Jimmy's going to get a lot better the more he plays," Shanahan added.
Anything can be slanted and taken out of context whichever way someone wants to interpret it but they have been pretty clear Garoppolo is their guy and the major obstacle is his injury history imo.
Now having said that I am not a blind follower of Garoppolo. He's not irreplaceable. Garoppolo is not an elite QB and if the opportunity presented itself, I agree they would explore an upgrade if one presented itself at the right price. Where I think we differ is what QB's would really constitute an upgrade. Trading a bunch of picks to move up and draft a rookie is not an option for me. That would be a major gamble that could blow up spectacularly and ruin this team for the foreseeable future if they didn't hit on the right guy. That leaves proven vets as the only viable alternative for me and of the QB's that were (Stafford, Wentz) and possibly (Watson) available, Watson is the only one I would say is absolutely an upgrade on Garoppolo. Problem is Watson will cost a ridiculous amount of compensation which would defeat the purpose of the deal in the first place. That leaves us with Garoppolo who if healthy is capable of a top ten performance. The 49ers know this which is why they are going ahead with him as the starter and will try to improve the backup spot knowing his injury history. That's how I see it.
Jimmy G willing to waive no-trade clause according to MM.
ReplyDeleteMatt Maiocco
@MaioccoNBCS
·
Feb 21
Yes, Jimmy Garoppolo has a no-trade clause. He is also due $25.5 million in salary and bonuses. I believe he’ll be the #49ers starter this season. BUT...if there were a trade possibility, he would almost certainly waive the clause. Otherwise, he would not get that kind of money.
Quote Tweet
Ruben Almada
@rmalmada
· Feb 21
@MaioccoNBCS Does Jimmy G really have a no trade clause, ive been hearing that some
Yea, Cubus that trade clause was never worth the paper it was printed on. People made too big a deal over it not realizing it's better to get paid $26 million than not.
DeleteI think Jimmy has made the Oline appear much better than it is in actuality. I don't disagree with Kyle's prioritization of OT's and Center's over guard play, however I would argue that he has taken it a bit to the extreme. So when injuries undermined his Center position, it basically turned the interior of the Oline into a freeway to the qb.
ReplyDeleteThis in turn could affect the qb's physche as they become conditioned to trying to trying to protect themselves, and soon their mechanics start to suffer even more, so a stance that was an equal weight distribution across both feet, becomes one that places more weight on the back leg. This takes away velocity and causes balls to sail.
SF has been starting players in the interior of their Oline that are not replacement level starters but backup level players that are forced to start. In my opinion, a major change isn't needed but if they could at least get low level starters across the interior it would greatly upgrade the offense, not least of which by giving Jimmy increased confidence.
Could explain why a lot of Jimmy's throws were sailing high.
DeleteGood point Mood Indigo. I've been watching some games from this season and it is amazing how bad the pass pro was at times. In the game in Seattle there was somebody coming free up the middle regularly and they blitzed the LB effectively as well. Just way too many breakdowns and inconsistency this season.
DeleteThat should have been directed at Shoup not Mood Indigo.
DeleteGood to see you, Notanexpert.
DeleteGood to be here Razoreater thanks.
DeleteRazor/Mid
ReplyDeleteI was thinking maybe once a week you guys could put up a blank page for general/open discussions that are not on topic but are football related. Just a thought.
I got you, Under.
Delete