By Scooter_McG
Heading into a season every team's worst nightmare is seeing their franchise QB go down with a season ending injury. That nightmare became reality for the 49ers in week 2 against the Seahawks, with Trey Lance suffering an ankle fracture on a designed run up the middle on the 49ers second drive of the game, on what was Lance's third designed run up the middle of the game.
The decision to have Lance running so regularly into traffic through five quarters of the 2022 season has already divided 49ers fans. I won't get into that now, outside of saying it isn't what I believe Shanahan should have been doing even aside from the injury.
The 49ers are, however, one of the very few teams that are built to withstand such an injury. Courtesy of what seemed a very unlikely scenario this offseason, the ability to retain Jimmy Garoppolo now becomes the greatest asset in hopes to salvage the season despite losing their starting QB.
Jimmy G was able to steer the 49ers to a 27-7 victory over the Seahawks after entering the game up 3-0.
Here's what stood out to me:
- After ill-discipline and mistakes lost them the game against the Bears it was a far more composed and clinical 49ers team this week against the Seahawks. Yes, the offense sputtered at times due to some missed assignments, but gone were the penalties and the defense played an excellent and clean game.
- The running game continues to be the backbone of the offense no matter who the QB is. Today the running game once again outgained the passing attack, with 189 total rushing yards led by Jeff Wilson and Deebo Samuel. Wilson in particular had a good game, while Deebo's 51 yard run showcased just how good he is at making something out of nothing. TDP also saw his first NFL action and had a couple of nice plays, but the OL seemed to leave its worst plays to when he was getting a carry with three TFLs on TDP due to missed assignments.
- Jimmy G was efficient early on but struggled as the game went on. But given this was his first action since the shoulder surgery the 49ers would have to be pleased with how he and the team performed once Lance went down.
- There were some less than stellar moments, but for the most part I thought Banks and Burford did some very nice things in both the run and passing game. Brendel was a little less impressive from what I saw, with I believe some of the missed assignment on him. Still room for improvement for sure, but the OL through two weeks is showing signs of not being the huge weakness many feared. Today they gave up just 9 pressures on 36 pass plays, with no sacks.
- The defense was excellent across the board today. The Seahawks offense with Geno Smith at QB had no rights to be a threat, and the defense made sure that was the case. The DL was able to generate decent pressure throughout, while the back seven played fast and smothered both the run and passing lanes.
- Once again Hufanga stood out as a playmaker, with his tipped pass gifting Gipson an INT being the highlight. But he was everywhere once again and made a number of other excellent contributions.
- Greenlaw and Warner were also superb and all over the field making plays. Greenlaw stood out a little more and it was a nice bounce back game for him, made all the sweeter with the announcement he had signed a two year extension.
- The starting CBs of Ward and Moseley looked good again. The duo give the 49ers a very nice pair of CBs. I didn't see Womack make many plays, which could be a good sign (in that he was anonymous, and thereby hopefully locking down his guy). I'd love to hear what someone like Crocky makes of his first two starts after watching the all-22.
What a weird fanbase. Calling for Shanny to be fired. Bringing a racial component to it by accusing Shanny of purposefully ruining black quarterbacks. Very strange.
ReplyDeleteThe Seahawks had 10 men on the field when Hufanga tipped that ball for the Int.
The worst part of Lance's injury is the set back in experience. He's now way behind the 8-ball as far as his development. The plan was always for him to lean on his legs and develop on the fly. By November he would have been a completely different quarterback. It was a bold plan, and one I do not fault Shanny for. Lance's best attribute was his running and Shanny's job is to win games. If you're afraid to use that attribute, then there's no point in him being the quarterback because Jimmy is the better pocket passer right now.
I can't get on board with running your QB into the teeth of the defense a handful of times a game. We saw what it did to Cam Newton.
DeleteJust because he has the ability to make plays with his legs doesn't make using him as a battering ram a good idea. He may not be Lamar Jackson but he is plenty athletic enough to stress a defense as a running threat to the edge if DEs crash down on the RB inside, or for booting out and getting yards with his legs if the coverage stays with the receivers. And more importantly, making a positive play when the pocket breaks down. That is how his athleticism should be used.
Yea, he doesn't have the speed to threaten the perimeter. His strength in college was as a power runner, and that's what he needed to keep himself afloat until he figured it out. I don't agree he was using him as a battering ram.
DeleteGood thing is that broken bones don't take nearly as long as ligaments/tendons to recover. Dude will get a nice titanium plate on his leg (ankle break is basically the bone above the ankle). He'll have 10 screws down there, itll heal up and be stronger than before. He will be off it for up to 6 weeks, then work to build up his calf and loosen the joint for another 6 or so and be back on the field by the the first off season workout.
DeleteHe has all off season to work on his passing. Thats what needs to happen. He needs to work on pre-snap reads. He needs to work on making adjustments at the line. He needs to work on throwing to spots on the field, not to open wrs. His WR is supposed to be at X spot at 1.5 seconds, the ball is out, just throw it, stop waiting for guys to be open. This whole off season needs to be a passing graduate program for him.
I always felt he wasn't ready yet, that he needed more time to develop and felt it was best to do on the side, especially with how SB ready this team was. That isn't how the season started but is how it ended. 3 years on the side didn't hurt Rodgers, and even now his backup seems to look a lot better than he did the previous years. This could benefit Trey if he uses it the right way to train in the off season.
Razor tell me it isn't so about the racial component. That is very disturbing even from a whiny fan base that the Niners have.
DeleteI think razor overemphasized that a bit. I've read 1000s of comments on dozens of boards since last night. Maybe one or two like that, probably from the same guy.
DeleteIn no way was I implying the racial component was predominant, and I just glimpsed through a few comments under the trending fire Shanny tweet, not thousands, so I will take your word for that, Rib.
DeleteRazoreater is making such a strange argument.
ReplyDeleteTrey Lance had as many designed runs between the tackles as he did pass attempts yesterday, even though he was averaging 10 yards per pass attempt! The actual running game, you know, like with the actual RUNNINBACKS, was working well, and the 49ers seemed in control. Jeff Wilson JR looked great, and he was dominating the Seahawks, So why then is Kyle risking his franchise QB, on 2nd an 8, with the lead, and with the ball inside FG range? Does Kyle simply have no sense of SITUATIONAL football, and the concept of RISK/REWARD?
Either Kyle screwed up for using THREE 1st round picks on a kid who can't play QB within a basic passing structure, or Kyle screwed up by using his him a battering ram, as if he's Larry Csonka.
I thought the whole idea of drafting a mobile QB was to add both an element of deception, and the ability to make those off-schedule plays? Trey Lance is at his best when he's running designed roll-outs, bootlegs, and handing the ball off on 95% of his zone-reads. He was never going to last a full season, heck, a half season being used like a fullback. Did Kyle learn nothing from Trey's two starts last season? Trey barely survived the Arizona start, but thrived in a pass heavy offense in his second start, as he was able to use his legs to buy time in the pocket, or scramble for first downs.
Why does Kyle treat Trey Lance like he can't play QB? That's the question that Razor should be asking himself! Because it makes absolutely no sense to spend THREE 1st round picks on a FULLBACK, for crying out loud!
It's the fact that Kyle is inept when it comes to the QB position, that I can't stand him as a HC. And Kyle's condescending answer to the very fair question, is a perfect example of why I can't stand Kyle as a person!
What part of "Trey can't pass" do you not seem to grasp? We all know you want to give him a special massage, but dude the guy is not a quality passer yet and they had to use his legs otherwise the offense would sputter drive after drive after drive. One dimensional. Thats it. He can't make the presnap reads yet, he cant make throws unless guys are open. Yeah he has a big arm and can make deep throws, but that doesn't matter if you can't complete them consistently and even then most teams throw 20+ not more than 5 times a game, they rely on the short throws.
DeleteHe was not ready yet to be a legit passing threat which is why they had to run him.
Now either get behind this team or move the hell on.
In other words - either Kyle failed in his evaluation of Trey Lance as a QB prospect, or he failed in the way he used Trey Lance as a player.
DeleteIt's either one or the other, and frankly, I'm not sure which is worse.
All I know is that the 49ers are THREE 1st round draft picks POORER, and are still stuck in the situation where their season is dependent on both an inconsistent, and perhaps the most injury-prone veteran QB, in the entire NFL!
And BTW, Jimmy Garoppolo is now scheduled to become a FA, lol.
Only Kyle could simultaneously find a way to flush THREE 1st round picks down the drain, while letting his most successful QB hit free agency! It would be funny if it weren't so sad!
DeleteRunning your QB between the tackles?
https://www.nfl.com/videos/can-t-miss-play-lamar-jackson-takes-off-for-career-long-79-yard-td-run
Criminal.
"Trey Lance is at his best when he's running designed roll-outs, bootlegs, and handing the ball off on 95% of his zone-reads."
DeleteThe play he was injured on was zone read was it not? Trey decided to keep the ball. Do we know what the gap it was designed for? It's hard to tell, Trey has this habit of lowering his shoulder and bulling into defensive players, even on "designed roll-outs, bootlegs" etc.
In other words - either Kyle failed in his evaluation of Trey Lance as a QB prospect, or he failed in the way he used Trey Lance as a player.
DeleteMost likely the first part given how he chose to use him. That should tell you what he thinks of Trey as a passer at this point.
Why do you think the Ravens don't want to give Lamar a big contract?
DeleteAt least Lamar can outrun defenders. Trey can't! What good does running Trey Lance between the tackles do for this team, other than 4 yards and a cloud of dust? That's what you spend THREE first picks on .... 4 yards and a cloud of dust? Come on man!
Shoup, those reports we'd been hearing from pundits and "insiders" all offseason and training camp: "team feeling he's not ready", "second thoughts", etc etc, were probably on to something after all
DeleteI agree Shoup. Simply put - Kyle can't evaluate the QB position, which is the most important position on his team!
DeleteBut we already knew that!
The thing is, Like Steve Young says, Kyle has told us more over the last 2.5 years, about how he feels about Jimmy. Kyle doesn't want him, because he doesn't trust him, and neither does anyone else!
DeleteeMJay, do you even realize that, when you describe Trey Lance as a QB, you are describing a 4th round prospect? A 4th round project of a QB prospect? LOL
ReplyDeleteOnly eMJay could find a way to criticize Kyle as a QB evaluator, without even realizing it! Because god forbid that the "genius" Kyle Shanahan - with a losing overall record in year 6 - face any kind of criticism whatsoever!
ReplyDeleteAnd BTW, if Jimmy is so good, why are the 49ers 2.5 point underdogs to an average Denver Broncos team, even though the 49ers might have the league's best defense?
"And BTW, if Jimmy is so good, why are the 49ers 2.5 point underdogs to an average Denver Broncos team, even though the 49ers might have the league's best defense? "
DeleteBTW, Vegas now has the Niners with better odds of winning the SB than previously with Trey.
ribico, you crack me up. How many times do you need to see the same movie, over and over again? Jimmy's just good enough to get you the postseason, IF HE CAN STAY HEALTHY, but not good enough to win it all. So the only thing that's change year over year, is Kyle flushing first round pick, after first round pick, down the drain!
DeleteI knew it was a bad idea to respond to your drivel. Board, I apologize.
DeleteWas it Confucius who remarked: "he who wrestles with a hog must expect to be spattered with filth, whether he is vanquished or not" ?
DeleteI don't have stats to back this up, only my eyeballs over the decades. But I'd wager nearly all serious injuries happen to QBs out in space or in the pocket. TL's running style - shoulder down, bulldoze into defender(s) had him scheduled for the IR eventually, no matter where it happened on the field.
ReplyDeleteThis whole thing of "battering ram between the tackles" is just a way for non-fans of KS and JG to vent, in love with their own opinions more than that of the team.
I agree. Cohn made a complete boob out of himself by asking why he runs him like that. That play has options within it and it is the exact same play that Deebo ripped off 51 yards on. Trey chose to keep the ball and take it up the middle. It was an unfortunate injury. The initial tackler didn't look like he hit him that hard. I think it was the secondary defender that caught his foot glued to the turf in a freak injury. At least that's how it looked to me live.
DeleteToo bad a really good performance by the Niners basically goes unnoticed due to the Lance injury. I watched the Ravens - Dolphin game and watched Jackson run up thru the tackles.
ReplyDeleteYou draft a QB for his legs and when they use his legs the whiner's have a cow. Now if Lance had run for a TD on that play the whiner's would of stated - that's a great athlete and that's why we drafted him.
When I was watching the Bears game and the pocket was collapsing, I expected Lance to wiggle out of it much like Jackson, Wilson, Rodgers and others, he did not. Purdy is more elusive than Lance is and it's not even close. When you draft a runner, you expect him to run. I myself don't like running QB's as the injury bug hits them even more so. Steve Young paid the price as a running QB. JG had an ACL when he ran. Yes, Josh Allan hasn't been hurt, it's coming, they all get hurt. RG III and Newton are prime examples of this. Running QB's get hurt whether they run inside or outside.
By the way there is a difference between a running QB and a scrambling QB, Lance is a runner he isn't elusive enough to be a scrambler. Wilson and Tarkenton are the two best scrambling QB's of all time.
You made my point, undercenter. I Kyle picked Trey for huis legs, as you suggest he did, and spent THREE 1st round picks for a running QB, he should probably be fired.
DeleteThere is a reason that the Ravens don't want to give Lamar a big contract, because they know he's not a good enough passer. But like I said, at least Lamar can outrun defenders. Trey can't!
"I expected Lance to wiggle out of it much like Jackson, Wilson, Rodgers and others, he did not."
Deleteunder, is that something innate or developed? Lance just has never had enough snaps, in college or pros, to develop that 6th sense scrambling ability. Will he ever? His future as a franchise QB, for this or any other team, depends on it.
At what point is it time to re-evaluate Kyle as a "QB Whisperer?" or even a QB developer? Because we know darn well that Kyle can't evaluate the QB position.
DeleteRib I believe it's innate. It's something either you have, or you don't.
DeleteMontana was a scrambler too.
DeleteLance reminds me of Kaep in his running style, not good in tight spaces but his stride will eat up yardage in the open field, problem is that those should be on non-designed run plays.
I hope when Trey returns he turns into Ben Roethlisberger, stay behind the line of scrimmage, move around, use your size to your advantage (he's no where near as heavy as BB but he's got the frame to bulk up in the lower half) and keep PASSING plays alive, don't try to run from the get.
"I expected Lance to wiggle out of it much like Jackson, Wilson, Rodgers and others, he did not."
DeleteI never expected that from Lance. It's the type of athlete he is. But he doesn't need to be in order to be good at evading pressure and making plays with his legs when things break down.
Lance is very good with his pocket movements for someone with as little experience as he has. My thought was that he can use those movements to evade initial pressure and he has the athleticism to then make a play with his legs if a lane opens up. He's done it a couple of times already in his young career.
But yeah, never thought he would be the type of jitterbug QB that runs circles around defenders to buy time.
Need I remind you guys that the last time Kyle handpicked a QB he over-drafted CJ BEATHARD. CJ was widely considered a 5th or 6th round prospect, but Kyle had to have in in round 3!
ReplyDeleteFace it guys, Kyle wouldn't know a talented QB if it bit him in the a_s!
The sad thing with the Lance injury is that we really don't know what he can or can't do, hasn't had enough opportunities. I like many of you who question JG availability which is very valid I am beginning to question Lance ability to stay healthy. That's two significant injuries in two years.
ReplyDeleteYep, if you thought the odds were against him before the injury, chances are you're leaning towards writing him off now. It's gonna be tough.
DeleteMan we are back again to the 8 man box and dare JG to throw deep. We shall see if this Def can finally win us the SB this year.
ReplyDeleteJimmy through the ball the best I've seen him throw since he got here in 2017.
DeleteYeah, but you saw when the Def adjusted in the 2nd half and stacked the box and dare him to throw deep like the previous years... we have seen this over and over and nothing is gonna change. He is good enough to take us to the playoff as long as our Def is top 10 but the outcome is likely the same unless our Def plays even better.
DeleteDifference defensively is they're picking off balls left and right. Not dropping them.
DeleteMan, tell me about it. Barring major injuries... this Def is gonna might take us to the promise land!
DeleteGreat defense, but the Niners had a great defense in 2019, and Jimmy couldn't get it done back then.
DeleteIn fact, Kyle felt the need to take the ball out of Jimmy's hands in the 2019 postseason, so what's changed?
Plus, the AFC is better now. There are at least 3 AFC teams that are better than the 2019 Chiefs.
I'm just glad we can finally stop debating if Jimmy is capable of winning it all, because there is no question that the 49ers have a championship caliber roster.
DeletePersonally, I think this defense can be even better than 2019, because injuries caught up to the 2019 defense, late in the season.
Can the defense, and the run game carry Jimmy again, like they did in 2019? Can Jimmy make a big play in a playoff game? I guess we'll see!
It kind of felt like all these questions were answered when Jimmy's HC decided he was desperate enough to find his replacement, that he needed to trade up to the 3rd overall pick before he even finished evaluating the QB class. And then it kind of felt like these questions were answered when nobody wanted Jimmy at $25M enough to make a trade.
DeleteBut for at least a 3rd of the 49ers fanbase, including a few guys on this blog, there doesn't seem to be anything that Kyle or Jimmy can do that will ever convince you otherwise.
In fact, when Jimmy gets hurt again this season, I am sure that Razoreater, ribico, eMJay, GEEP, and will make more ridiculous excuses!
I mean, if you guys will go out of your way to justify the way Kyle has failed to develop Trey Lance as a passer, in order to justify the way Kyle has been running him into the ground, there is no telling how creative you guys will be when it comes time to make excuses for Jimmy and Kyle yet again at seasons end!
I mean, god forbid if the 49ers need to draft another QB at this point, which I think they probably do considering the failure of Lance!
DeleteHow can anyone have confidence in Kyle's new QB of choice.
I mean, just look at Kyle's track record. This is a HC who thought BRIAN HOYER was such a good starter QB that Kyle Shanahan could justify not even bothering to scout the 2017 QB draft class, even though Kyle still decided he needed to over-draft CJ Beathard.
It's not that Kyle has had bad luck with QB's. It's that he doesn't seem to have a clue as to how to evaluate them, especially the younger ones! And he's way too emotional to be in charge of making decisions that require cold blood!
This team went to a SB and a NFC Championship game in two out of the last 3 years with JG at QB. In both of those games they had a lead midway through the 4th quarter. Blame Garoppolo all you want but he's put them in position to win more often than not.
DeleteRight, we know that Jimmy G will put other players in a position to make their contributions and lead the team to wins. The key is for the D line to step up in crunch time in the waning moments of the fourth quarter and make plays -- something that the Chiefs (Super Bowl) and the Rams' (NFC Championship game) D lines against the Niners' offense and the Niners' D line couldn't come through.
DeleteAbove comment by me, Mood
DeleteCouple of other things lost is the fact that we beat a team that has given us fits over the years, and we won at home which is not a given at Levi.
ReplyDeleteSeahwaks fans will be back into the wilderness until they could find another Russell! Love it! They are the most annoying fanbase ever!
DeleteI will never forget that image of those idiots throwing food at Bowman while he was getting cartered off the field from a very serious injury! F*** them!
DeleteSpeaking of Seattle, is it me or does it seem like they purposely target our star players to take them out? Bowman comes to mind, now Lance.
DeleteThey have done it to us under Pete the cheat carroll so wont be surprised if they were doing the same thing yesterday.
DeleteIf the team wants a scrambling QB, Purdy is their man.
ReplyDeleteI like Purdy. He's mobile and decisive. Not a great arm but neither is Jimmy's. Maybe Purdy is the future? I just don't know anymore!
DeletePurdy definitely checked the Parcell quarterback boxes as a 4 year starter. Wouldn't shock me to see be efficient in this system. Question is, will he get that opportunity? Maybe....
DeleteHonestly, I am confused what this team wants at the QB position.
DeleteShanny wants a Josh Allen, but you can't always get what you want.
DeletePurdy strikes me as a slightly better version of Mullens. Good for a game or two max.Once the D coordinators figure him out, he'll throw INTs right and left.
DeleteThe idea that Shanny isn't invested in the success of Lance, or that he's been careless with him is unreasonable. Mixing runs in with passes until be became a more skilled passer gave the team the best chance to win. He won't need to run as much once he demonstrates the ability to be a proficient passer.
ReplyDeleteHe should of played in the first half of all preseason games. They don't anymore but as evidenced by yesterday game injuries can happen at any time. Might as well get him the experience in preseason, the risk is basically the same.
DeleteCan't help but feel there is a bit of revisionist history going on here atm.
ReplyDeleteWhen the 49ers drafted Lance and Lance's running ability was discussed it was almost always in terms of how his athleticism could assist turning negative plays into positive plays in the passing game, make defenses keep a coverage player as a spy, and the potential to also stress edge defenders on RPOs if they consistently crashed down.
I don't ever recall seeing or hearing about how excited people were about his ability to be used as a RB up the middle, or how QB Power was going to revolutionize the Shanahan offense.
Last year the talk was about how Shanahan wanted his Elway, not how he wanted his Newton. It was also stressed how much he hated having RGIII thrust on him.
But now I am hearing how this was always the plan? Huh? If it was suggested as the plan a year ago I can almost guarantee the people on this board would have said it was a terrible idea. I know I would have.
I don't mind using Lance on designed runs per se, but running him into congested boxes 3 times in the first quarter is just not smart.
Scooter, consider what they envisioned for Lance wouldn't come to fruition - they only found out the more they worked with him.
DeleteLance has had 8 pro games with 4 starts. When I look at his stats, he's had 54 carries and 102 pass attempts. Seems like a lot, right? But wait, when you dig deeper he had 18 true runs last year (mostly in the Cardinals game) and 5 this year. The other 31 "carries" were scrambles, sneaks and kneels.
DeleteI didn't have much issue with how he was used last week because it was largely scrambles and a few sneaks.
DeleteThree designed runs up the middle in 1 qtr this week... that I don't get.
Rib, if that is the case their evaluation was faulty, which is concerning as well.
DeleteGreat point, Scooter_McG! But let me build on this real quick. I need to ask about the ACT OF SLIDING, because I think this perfectly encapsulates Kyle' Shanahan's lack of basic understanding when it comes to the fundamentals of developing a young, mobile QB!
DeleteThis was one of the initial RED-FLAGS for me, LAST SEASON! It was glaringly apparent during Trey's first NFL start against Arizona, that Trey didn't seem to have one of the most important tools that any duel-threat QB needs to have in his tool-box - the ability to SLIDE.
With all of the rule changes in the NFL over the last 20 years - it's the Unsportsmanlike Conduct of contacting or hitting any mobile QUARTERBACK after he simply STRATS the act of sliding, that has been the most beneficial for these young modern-day mobile QB's, in order to help preserve their health. Not only that, 15 yards an an AUTOMATIC FIRST DOWN is a huge stressor on any opposing defense!
So having said all of that, Scooter_McG, what if I told you that this was never a point of emphasis for Trey Lance, during his rookie season. And what if I told you that this STILL wasn't a point of emphasis for Trey Lance, as recently as the middle of this year's training camp?
Would it shock you to know that, of all of the things you can do to help protect a young QB, teaching him the art of sliding was never made a priority for Trey's development under Kyle Shanahan. And would it shock you that when asked about this as recently as last month, that Kyle Shanahan seemed completely oblivious to this aspect of Trey's early development?
Now you tell me ..... if Kyle has even the basic understanding when it comes to developing a young mobile QB, and he's convinced that Trey Lance needs to used aggressively as a runner early in his career in order to offset his shortcomings when it comes to passing (and unbelievable as this sounds for a QB picked 3rd overall) how did Kyle completely botch such a fundamental developmental aspect for a duel-threat QB as sliding?
This is mobile QB 101 - stuff that I am talking about, Scooter_McG! The most basic developmental tool in the tool-box!
And after the RG3 "incident", you would think that Kyle Shanahan, of all HC's in the NFL, would understand just how important it is for every duel-threat QB to learn how to best protect himself, wouldn't you? If Kyle had even the slightest ability to understand how to develop a mobile QB, you would have to believe he would be smart enough to start with the fundamentals of the slide!
Unbelievable!
"Rib, if that is the case their evaluation was faulty, which is concerning as well."
DeleteScooter, *every* team has high hopes for a high round QB. How many of those come to fruition? Very few. Just google first round qb bust rate
*no I am not not calling Trey a bust. But he will be beating long odds if he does become the Niner franchise the team envisions for him.
Its a real bummer that Trey got injured.
ReplyDeleteWas it not smart from Trey,,bad luck or Kyle who still havent figured it out that he doesn't have the right playcalling for Trey yet.
Probaly all of the above.
Lets hope Jimmy is more consistent now.
It was only our second game rib.
ReplyDeleteNever know how it could have gone further.
At NDSU he wasnt that bad under center.
The 2nd half against the Texans should have been the blueprint to how the plan should have been for Trey.
But hey our HC is the football genius nog me.
Good stuff, Robber.
DeleteDid Kyle Shanahan and JL sell us 49ers fans a bill of goods when it comes to Trey Lance?
Because I specifically remember what Kyle and John loved most about the kid, and it wasn't his ability to power his way through 300+ lbs DL's, in-between the tackles.
Didn't they say that they loved Trey's "ability to process"? Do you remember that? That they loved the fact that "he was always looking to pass first, when it wasn't a designed QB run". How Trey always "kept his eye's trained downfield when buying time with his legs", and that he also "threw beautiful deep ball"?
And this argument that "Trey Lance could have been hurt in the pocket, so what's the big deal about running between the tackles?", is such a silly argument.
ReplyDeleteThat's like saying, "I could have died parking my car, so what's the big deal about driving and weaving in and out of traffic at 130 mph?"
Your argument is even sillier. The vast vast majority of QB injuries, even "running" QBs, happen from non-contact or in the pocket.
DeleteThis article from a Physical Therapy PhD, sports injury analyst and consultant blows up some myths that have been floating around web the last few days, in particular the shanahans "ruined" RGIII by using him as a fullback
Robert Griffin III: Non-contact ACL, recovering a fumble 10 yards behind line of scrimmage.
Cam Newton: Rotator cuff tear, fell on outstretched hand while attempting a tackle after an interception. If you remember, this is the injury that lingered for two year. His recent foot injury came on a play where he was simply evading a sack.
Randall Cunningham: (Presumably) Contact ACL, in the pocket.
Steve Young: Final concussion of career, in the pocket
https://www.theundroppables.com/medical-myths-mobile-qbs/
ribico, I hate to keep schooling you, but OF COURSE the vast majority of QB injuries happen within the pocket (but not non-contact, that's a lie). Wouldn't that make sense considering most HC's don't try to turn their QB's into glorified Fullbacks?
DeleteThat's not the same thing as what you seem to be implying. You seem to be implying that running your QB into the teeth of the defense is less of an injury risk than strictly using him as a pocket passer. That's absolute nonsense dude, and the statistics are not on your side on this. But more importantly, use some common sense.
The law of physics is all you need to understand ion order to conclude that running a 225 lbs QB (who tends to run more upright than a RB) into a wall of 300+ lbs DL's, is not the safest way to protect your QB! Come on man!
And BTW, I'm not even suggesting that Lance should strictly try to win games within the pocket. Of course you take advantage of his mobility. You just don't take advantage of his mobility in the riskiest wat possible. Like Larry Kruger said, taking advantage of a mobile QB's mobility is NOT THE SAME THING running him between the tackles at a higher rate than any NFL QB in league history. Taking advantage of what Lance does best, would be to get him in space, and use his agility on roll-outs, and bootlegs, and sweeps, like we saw in his first NFL action VS the Packers.
Instead of doing this, Kyle's usage of Lance was (past tense, now) FAR FROM NORMAL, even among the NFL’s new crop of running quarterbacks....... Lance ran the ball on a higher proportion of snaps than ANY OTHER QB in the league during his four starts, as data from Pro Football Reference and Pro Football Focus shows. San Francisco has had Lance running the ball at three times the rate Buffalo did with Allen at this point in his career. Even as Allen’s usage as a runner has increased, he has never carried the ball on more than 10.6% of his snaps in a season. Lance ran the ball 19.0% of the time, three percentage points more than Ravens star quarterback Lamar Jackson, nearly double every other quarterback, and more than triple Allen’s rate.
The only thing you are schooling anybody about are psychoanalysts in training studying warped manic personalities.
DeleteThe facts:
Randall Cunningham: 15 seasons
Mike Vick: 13 seasons
Steve Young: 15 seasons
Kordell Stewart: 9 seasons
Donovan McNabb: 13 seasons
John Elway: 16 seasons
Steve McNair: 13 seasons
And yes ALL of the above had their share of running into "the teeeth of the defense"
1. The most mobile NFL QBs in history played an average of 13 seasons
2. A majority of their injuries were non-contact
ReplyDeleteTed Nguyen
@FB_FilmAnalysis
·
5h
The hand wringing from Shanahan calling a simple counter bash play for Lance has gotten out of control. It’s a play Greg Roman has called since Kap was a 49er and it’s called plenty for starting QBs around the league.
Yep same type of play he ran in College and QB's around the league have run, but he got hurt so many overreact and blame the play caller. I'm not sure what anyone expected they were going to see this season from Lance, especially in the early going but this is stuff he ran at NDSU and to question whether Shanahan should call plays like this for him shows a lack of understanding as far as who this kid is, at least right now. In order for the team to try to win games while developing Lance, they have to run read option. He's not a consistent enough passer to not have that as a big part of his game. The plan isn't to have him run into or over people either which is being suggested here and other places. Lance is supposed to read the defender and hand it off or take it himself. When he takes it himself it is often the wrong read first off, and then he tends to compound the problem by trying to run over people.
DeleteWhat we are seeing more than anything is that Lance is not very elusive. When he has the ball he's not hard to hit. He can't get juke defenders. He just plows into them which is not the plan I can guarantee you that.
9/26/2021: Kyle Shanahan doesn’t view rookie QB Trey Lance as solution to create rushing yards. “He’s not Lamar Jackson,’’ Kyle told me. “Trey is a quarterback who has the ability to run. But to just line him up and run him, I mean, the game’s too physical.’
DeleteIt always sucks when you get caught lying to the press/fans!
I'd say Ted knows a thing or two about football.
DeleteGeorge comment:
ReplyDeleteTDP is out. High ankle sprain.
It's finally Mason time.
Excited to see what he can do, George.
DeleteHere you go Razoreater, I wanted you guys to read this Kyle Shanahan quote to Ed Werder from last year -
Delete9/26/2021: Kyle Shanahan doesn’t view rookie QB Trey Lance as solution to create rushing yards. “HE'S NOT LAMAR JACKSON", Kyle told me. “TREY IS A QUARTERBACK WHO HAS THE ABILITY TO RUN, BUT TO JUST LINE HIM UP AND RUN HIM, I MEAN, THE GAME IS TOO PHYSICAL!"
Don't you guys just hate an electronic paper trail? LOL
That's OK Razor, I hear there is a kid named Lamar Jackson who plays lacrosse at Duke University. I am sure Kyle was talking about him.
DeleteGeorge:
DeleteIn the end it could be Mason and Mack, if Mack can play. I love Wilson, but he's bound to break down. One thing TDP has against him is his "over aggressive" playing style (my words). It seems to have hurt Kittle's longevity and I think it will his and, for that matter, Deebo's.
ReplyDeleteDavid Lombardi
@LombardiHimself
·
2h
Kyle Shanahan on QB running questions: "The more the better, so I can help educate."
Today, Shanahan was asked about the comments from 2021 and what he meant by them.
ReplyDelete"Yeah, that means we didn't want to move him to running back," Shanahan responded. "That means everything is with a read principle and that you don't go out there and just run him every single play. He's a quarterback who can run.
"I also think that was in reference to [a reporter] asking if Trey could help us out at running back last year because of all our injuries to [the position]. And no, we weren't going to move him there."
TRUTH
C'mon, Under that doesn't fit the narrative!
DeleteI know Razor, certain people have a narrow narrative and are blinded by their absolute astuteness.
DeleteTruth? lol.
DeleteI got you now, undercenter. You do know Lamar Jackson plays QB, right? Think about it. Take off your blinders and think about this.
IF KYLE WAS REALLY REFERING TO USING TREY LANCE AS A RB, WHICH NOBODY IN THEIR RIGHT MIND WOULD EVEN SUGGEST BTW, THEN WHY IN THE WORLD IS KYLE USING LAMAR JACKSON AS A REFERENCE? LAMAR PLAYS QB, NOT RB!
Come on guys, use your brains for a change. That makes absolutely no sense and you know it. Kyle is obviously grasping at straws to try to cover his a_s, because he knows how foolish he looks in all of this.
Seriously, do you guys really think somebody suggested Kyle should play Trey Lance at RB? That's so dumb it's comical! That never happened!
What people were suggesting is for Kyle to give Trey some packages as a QB, in order to help boost a struggling rushing attack. Nobody was actually suggesting to line up a 6'4" franchise QB whom the team spent THREE 1st round picks on, as a RB.
DeleteI see the narrow narrative showed up. You wouldn't know truth if it hit you in the face. You are agenda driven and you are an emotional wreck, and your word is no good...has been pointed out by many here on this board. Go find another team if they will have you.
Deleteunderscenter (and ribico, Razoreater), can you guys tell me which offensive position has by far the shortest lifespan in terms of their NFL careers?
DeleteIf you guessed RB, you'd be right. That's why you carry a lot more RB's on a roster, than you do QB's. Because RB's constantly getting hurt running the football into the defensive line.
On the flip side, can you guys tell me which offensive position has the longest lifespan in terms of their NFL Careers?
If you guessed QB, you'd be right. Do you have any idea why an NFL QB's career, on average, lasts longer than any other offensive position?
I'm going to let that marinate in hard-headed noggins for a bit, and then I'll get back to you guys for your answer. Especially you, RIBICO, because you tried to fool everyone into thinking that running the football into the teeth of the defense, isn't anymore of an injury risk, than it is sitting in the pocket, looking for somewhere to pass the football.
BTW, TDP is now on the shelf. That's two of the 49ers four RB's on their opening day roster that are now hurt. Did all of these guys suffer non-contact injuries, or get hurt standing in the 49ers offensive backfield? Or did they hurt trying the run the football past the LOS?
I mean come on guys, why do you continue to argue something that you know darn well makes no sense. It's not a valid argument to claim that Trey Lance's health wasn't put and greater risk, running the football 10-12 times a game, BETWEEN THE TACKLES. And then when you factor in Kyle's absolute neglect to even make learning to slide a priority for Trey's early development?
Honestly, a lot of NFL Head Coaches have fired for less than this. You spend THREE 1st round picks on a QB, and he can't play from the pocket, and win games from the pocket in his SECOND season, then you screwed up. That's just a fact. Whether Kyle screwed up in his initial analysis of Trey Lance, or he screwed up with his development of Trey Lance, or he screwed up with his use of Trey, or it's all of the above. KYLE SCREWED UP BIG TIME! That's all there is too it!
So who's getting called up after Croft and TDP go to IR? Mack and ? Turner or Fumagalli? I'll go with Mack and Turner.
ReplyDeleteAgree with Scooter on this one. Frankly, I'm not okay with giving up a net two first round picks for a running QB and hoping he will become a passer one day. It's still a passing league and a QB who is both a passer and scrambler has real worth. Allen developed into a passer in his second year, if memory serves. What have we seen from Lance? I don't blame Lance at all. I too am questioning the wisdom of giving up so much capital for a guy with probably the least experience of any QB ever taken in the top 5 (I'm not really sure about that, but wouldn't be surprised). And then a strategy to develop him by having him run the ball against NFL defenses.
ReplyDeleteFair enough, everyone seems to now want to believe they were happy with and expected this plan all along, and that to think it would be anything different is foolish. Even though nobody ever mentioned this usage as something they saw happening previously. And that previously comments were all how it was obvious Shanahan didn't want another RGIII.
ReplyDeleteFor mine if I had known this was the plan I would have had considerable reservations and preferred they go a different route. And I don't think it is unreasonable to expect his usage in the running game to have been different to lots of runs up the middle.
I think lots of people were thinking that Lance was going to be another Wilson etc.
DeleteI never liked the trade, still don't, but still hoping my mind is changed.
When I scouted him my first thought was Josh Allen in a couple years, and I read where Shanny really liked Allen coming out.
DeleteBoth came into the NFL under a different set of circumstances. Allen on a rebuilding team and allowed to take his lumps learning how to play quarterback in the NFL. Lance on a Super Bowl caliber roster that needs to win now while at the same time growing into the position.
DeleteMarc Delucchi has some interesting facts on the 49ers use of Trey Lance as a "running" QB:
ReplyDelete"The Niners’ usage of Lance was (past tense, now) far from normal, even among the NFL’s new crop of running quarterbacks....... Lance ran the ball on a higher proportion of snaps than any other quarterback in the league during his four starts, as data from Pro Football Reference and Pro Football Focus shows. San Francisco has had Lance running the ball at three times the rate Buffalo did with Allen at this point in his career. Even as Allen’s usage as a runner has increased, he has never carried the ball on more than 10.6% of his snaps in a season. Lance ran the ball 19.0% of the time, three percentage points more than Ravens star quarterback Lamar Jackson, nearly double every other quarterback, and more than triple Allen’s rate. These numbers also don’t include Lance’s usage in run-first wildcat formations that subjected him to more hits while he was Garoppolo’s backup last season. Something, by the way, that the Bills never did with Allen.
And Jackson has speed and agility that would be elite at a skill position — something we haven’t quite seen from Lance, who has also never flashed anything close to Jackson’s trademark shiftiness. Mobility was never exactly absent from Lance’s game. It helped him avoid pressure in the pocket and record some yards as a scrambler, but he never showed elite rushing ability. Shanahan acknowledged as much last year. “He’s not Lamar Jackson,” the coach told ESPN. “Trey is a quarterback who has the ability to run. But to just line him up and run him, I mean, the game’s too physical.”
https://www.sfgate.com/49ers/article/49ers-trey-lance-usage-blame-17452511.php
Some of the run numbers are skewed by scrambles and sneaks in week 1 this season, but then so are the numbers for the other QBs. His usage as a runner was high for the position, and the proportion of the designed runs up the middle higher still. I'm just not on board with it, and I am pretty sure if most people are realistic with themselves they would not want the franchise QB doing that at the rate Lance was.
DeleteCubus “Trey is a quarterback who has the ability to run. But to just line him up and run him, I mean, the game’s too physical.”
DeleteHe was responding to a question by a reporter who asked last year if Trey could play RB.
The spacing created for Lance have been huge. The kid just needs to learn when to hit it and how to avoid unnecessary contact.
Delete@UC: If KS was responding to a question regarding if Trey could play RB, why respond using Lamar Jackson as an example. Why not use a RB as an example.
DeleteCubus, Jackson can get away with running better than most QB's due to his elusiveness. Lance is not an elusive runner. Lance is not a Lamar Jackson.
DeleteSerious question for you guys. Given what KS seems to want in a QB now, refresh my memory as to why he didn't want Kap? Sure Kap had his issues, but doesn't Lance. Passing, reading defenses just to name a few. Why is it okay for Lance to have those issues, but not Kap? No question Kap could run the zone read.
ReplyDeleteIf what we have seen from how Lance has been used is what Shanahan is really after, then yeah, may as well have kept Kaep.
DeleteBut, Shanahan has been clear about his expectations in terms of pocket passing as well. I am sure the plan would be for Lance to be good in this area plus provide running ability.
There is no comparison between Kap and Lance. Lance is far more natural thrower of the ball than Kap. Steve Young has been studying Lance and interacting with him. He has clearly stated multiple that Lance is already an elite processor, i.e., speed at which he can diagnose defenses. Lance's challenge is to consistently make the throws accurately from the pocket with timing and anticipation which will come with experience. Kap never seem to improve the mental part of the game, e.g., his reading of defenses.
DeleteConsidering the speed and sophistication of current NFL defenses, the running QB seems to be important to Kyle to open up his playbook of 11-on-11 football. His moving away from a dominant outside zone scheme is an acknowledgement of the lateral speed of the defensive front 7's in the league. Once he saw Josh Allen dominate at Levis, I think his vision of the future of offensive football shifted decisively, IMO.
@Mood: I remember when Kap made his "debut", Jaworksi said he thought Kap could arguably be the best QB in the history of the NFL. He seemed to base that on all of the physical tools Kap had hedging only that he needed more time on the field. Frankly, that sounds like Lance now except that Lance has even less experience than Kap had.
DeleteI hope you're right about the passing. It will be interesting to hear reports of what Lance is working on improving this offseason.
It's too bad about Lance as it has overshadowed what a good performance that the team as a whole had. Defense played shutout ball, disciplined returned big time, the running game was hitting. TDP looked good, now he is hurt. Lance is hurt, too bad, I suspect Purdy will be the QB at years end, not sure if JG can hold up.
ReplyDeleteOne thing im sure of is that Trey will be even more better cuz he has another chip on his shoulder.
ReplyDeleteLast years TC VS this years camp he made serious strides.
We got encouraging signs.
So i stay positive.
Guess who is the highest graded (probably PFF grade) Niners' O linemen of Week 2, according to Lombardi.
ReplyDeleteNone other than Banks, the player dismissed by knowledgeable Niners fans as a bust.
Yeah crazy to call him a bust into his 2nd season
ReplyDeleteHurts ran the ball 7 times last night.
ReplyDelete#FireSirianni
DeleteThe game has changed.
DeleteHow could they, he's only 223lbs, he couldn't withstand the beating.
DeleteMaybe he got lucky LOL
DeleteRazoreater, did you see this:
DeleteKyle's usage of Lance was FAR FROM NORMAL, even among the NFL’s new crop of running quarterbacks....... Lance ran the ball on a higher proportion of snaps than ANY OTHER QB in the league during his four starts, as data from Pro Football Reference and Pro Football Focus shows. San Francisco has had Lance running the ball at three times the rate Buffalo did with Allen at this point in his career. Even as Allen’s usage as a runner has increased, he has never carried the ball on more than 10.6% of his snaps in a season. Lance ran the ball 19.0% of the time, three percentage points more than Ravens star quarterback Lamar Jackson, nearly double every other quarterback, and more than triple Allen’s rate.
And the last part of this date is probably the most important in terms of Kyle's guilt. Kyle went on record last year stating that Trey Lance wasn't Lamar Jackson, and that the game was too physical for Trey Lance to be used to run the football as often as Lamar Jackson. But as you guys can clearly see, Kyle completely contradicted HIMSELF, in the way he's decided to run Lance at a HIGHER RATE than the Ravens run Lamar!
You guys who are defending Kyle's actions on this, are getting smoked in this debate. You have lost this argument, no matter how badly you want to cover for Kyle's lack of smarts!
Razor, if Shanahan had given up 3 1sts for Jalen Hurts, gow excited would you have been?
Delete"How could they, he's only 223lbs, he couldn't withstand the beating."
DeleteHow many times was he asked to run up the middle on a designed run?
Hurts running has always been the Eagles safety net, just like Lance's to the 49ers.
DeleteWe don't know who Lance is right now. He may end up being Hurts and of course I'm not giving up 3 One's for that, but if he ends up being Josh Allen, hell yea!
DeleteJohn Clark
@JClarkNBCS
Jalen Hurts is first player in NFL history to have:
300+ passing yards
80.0+ completion %
Rush for multiple TDs
Sure, but you are comparing his rushing to Hurts. A 2nd round pick.
DeleteInterestingly, did you notice the way they used Hurts' legs in this game is how I have said the 49ers should use Lance. Lots of getting him out into space on the edge.
Hurts had alot more experience playing the position than Lance coming into the league.
DeleteDid you see the spacing in the middle of the field for Lance? I agree with Ted Nygen that the hand wringing has reached a mob mentality.
The run up the middle I didn't mind was the 3rd and 6. Spread the defense out on what was a likely passing down. While it was a run up the middle, it was spaced out and defenders weren't playing the run. The other two... I didn't like.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI don't like running QB's at all, but at this point it's the only thing that Lance has going for himself. I didn't like it last year during Lance first game, run after run. and I don't like it Sunday. Its not the injury factor that concerns me it's more of the one-man team. Football is the ultimate team sport and when you have one player doing so much I believe it takes away from team unity. Those touches that Lance has, takes away from touches that other players have. Lance was drafted to run the ball and he did and now he is hurt like last year and now it give an excuse for some Niner fans to continue to be whiners.
ReplyDeleteI am a fan of the Niners, the complete organization, some in here are fans of players, players come and go as do coaches. I only have one complaint with Kyle and that his teams wilts in the fourth quarter.
Like I said many times I don't like the trade never have but I embrace it cause it's my team. I was hoping Lance would change my attitude toward the trade, so far nope maybe next year he will.
Bring on Purdy he is a scrambler who is elusive which can extend plays, neither Lance nor JG can scramble.
It was a bad trade from the get go and it still is...
UC: I agree with much of what you wrote except for the part where you state that you hope Lance would change my attitude toward the trade. Like every person Lance wants an opportunity which the 49ers have given him. But it is KS' responsibility as to how Lance is used and at this stage in his career Lance has no say in it (unlike Brady or Rodgers would).
DeleteAt this point, Lance is not highly paid for a QB but he is the presumptive franchise QB or so fans think. If KS's strategy is to go through QBs like he goes through RBs, then I have less of a problem with running QBs (a cold attitude, I know, but it is a business.). But if he would eventually pay Lance $40 million per year on average and then use him as a running QB which substantially increases the injury risk, then it is, imo, mismanagement.
I rewatched the two games and even the analysts (former NFL players) seemed to be surprised at how a QB was being used essentially as a battering ram.
Cubus I am as frustrated as everyone else, and your right Lance has very little say so as most young players. Not sure if there is anyone else that could change my mind about the trade. I am not blaming Lance for my attitude but his performance is the only thing that can change how I feel about the trade. I will wait till next year and see how he works out. I am not anti-Lance whatsoever, just don't like the trade. If you don't run Lance than the Niners should have stayed pat and taken Mac Jones. I am not blaming Lance at all, he hasn't had a fair chance yet. The ultimate goal is to win the Super Bowl, I don't care how it's done, just get it done.
DeleteIf running is all he has going for him right now it was an awful pick.
Delete@Scooter: But prior to the injury isn't that what Lance mostly had going for him (at this point in his career, or "now" as you put it). It sounds like you are considering him to be a bad pick because you didn't mention "potential" as almost 100% of the strong Trey Lance supporters mention.
DeleteI think Lance was ok as a passer. Erratic, needed experience, but ok.
DeleteIf running was literally all he had going for him it was a bad pick.
Scooter I trust KS and if he thinks Lance has a high ceiling and can be a generational QB I am willing to be patient. I am not going to fault KS for using Lance for what everyone deemed his greatest asset - running. It would be a crime to draft him because of his running prowess and not run him. I know your problem is quantity of runs and it's a valid concern, but we saw it in Lances first game last year so it should not have been a surprise.
DeleteMy issue is also the types of runs. I just don't understand why you'd want to be sending him into heavy traffic where he is pretty much guaranteed to take big hits.
DeleteJust to be clear, as I think a few of my comments on this are being misconstrued - I don't think Lance was a bad pick, or is a bust, or anything like that. I also don't think he is just a running QB, even when considering what he is right now rather than what he can be.
DeleteHe does a lot of good things as a pocket QB, he just needs reps and to get rid of some of the erratic elements of his passing game (in particular regarding accuracy).
I am also very much of the opinion that a successful offense can be run with Lance at QB without using him on a lot of designed runs up the middle and into traffic. Especially with the playmakers the 49ers have on offense, and the support the offense gets from the defense.
My comments about it being a bad pick are very much based on an "if" he really is just a running QB atm, or "if" this is the offense Shanahan envisaged. "If" he is just a running QB that needs that much development as a passer he isn't worth three 1sts to get. "If" this is what Shanahan envisaged, even just as part of getting Lance comfortable, then his plan is, imo, not sustainable and goes against the idea of how important it is to have your QB available. Either way, "if" that were to be the case, I think the process is bad.
Great article from Michael Silver. Well, I think it's great, 49reasons has so much hate I doubt that he thinks it's great.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.sfchronicle.com/sports/michaelsilver/article/Could-some-players-be-relieved-49ers-season-is-17450767.php
A few excerpts.
in the words of linebacker Dre Greenlaw, “Jimmy’s the perfect guy to be in this position.”
“He’s built the right way,” linebacker Fred Warner said. “It’s pretty crazy (that he’s starting again). You hate for it to happen that way. But golly, we know what Jimmy’s capable of. We’re just gonna ride him going forward.”
Said fullback Kyle Juszczyk: “He was 100 percent ready to go, and he literally had zero hiccups. He was incredible in terms of prep: We ran it 45 times (for 189 yards), and there was a lot of motion and cadence and checks, and everything went smooth.”
Yep, Jimmy did an admirable job for as little preparation as he had. I have wondered if Jimmy doesn't actually perform better when he isn't so controlled by KS. Some people respond to that kind of control whereas others don't. Remember how Nick Mullens mocked KS when he was in the huddle.
DeleteYou can't make diamonds without pressure.
DeleteWell respect, former NFL Coach - “SICK TO HIS STOMACH" because of the way Kyle chose to use his young, franchise QB (THREE 1st round picks).
ReplyDelete“I feel sick to my stomach about the injury, because the play call was not integral to the outcome of the game, and at that time, not considered a must call considering down-and-distance, as well as the defense on the field, coupled with the success of the Niners run-game from real ball carriers (RB’s)!”
Let’s everyone on this blog repeat this term after me – "SITUATIONAL FOOTBALL"
Say it out loud guys …… especially ribico, undercenter, Razoreater, and eMJay!
George comment:
DeleteI think we should start calling you AnonyMouse.
Since you enjoy using capital letters so much, READ MY LIPS: You are one of the most OBNOXIOUS and CONDESCENDING people I've ever had the MISFORTUNE to have met on the internet or ANYWHERE ELSE. Let's you repeat this phrase after me: I AM AN AHOLE!
Razor, delete my comment if you like. At least I've gotten it off my chest.
I think you said it perfectly George. I think that's a good place to leave it. I'm not going to respond to this idiot anymore and I suggest everyone else do the same. Only way to stop the insanity is not to feed it.
DeleteDoesn't stop him. I can delete his posts if he becomes too much for everyone.
DeleteIn other news, lmao:
ReplyDeleteHere’s how guards Spencer Burford and Aaron Banks have done so far in pass protection this season:
• 120 pass blocking snaps (combined)
• 0 sacks allowed
• 0 QB hits
• 3 pressures
They are only going to get better. Niners ran the ball last game for 189 (?) yards so the run blocking had to be pretty good too.
DeleteShit, Under if you think the run game is something now, wait until Kittle returns! I mean if we have any running backs left by then.
DeleteTrue that about any running backs left.
DeleteThey've been really good through two games. Not just in the passing game too. Brendel has been a little less impressive, but those two have been doing a fine job.
DeleteThey've been pretty good although not against the best of competition but still impressive for a couple of guys playing their first meaningful NFL snaps. Hope they continue to improve.
DeleteThing is, IF they can do that against Cris Jones or Aaron Donald for Jimmy G, it could make the difference given both players ended our seasons with interior pressures.
DeleteIn 107 Snaps, Hufanga has 14 Solo Tackles, 2 Assisted Tackles, 8 stops, 1 interception, and has only allowed 2 Receptions on 6 Targets. He's on course for All Pro.
ReplyDeleteI am impressed with that guy. The defense is going to be lights out.
DeleteWeek 1 I think his game was helped by the weather, but against the Seahawks the elements weren't really a factor. He's been excellent so far. Loving the varied ways they are using him too, and how he is making an impact from any alignment and assignment.
DeleteI was hoping Jackson would be making an impact, hasn't happened as of yet.
DeleteJackson has had a couple of flashes. Bosa's 2nd sack against the Seahawks came as a result of Jackson forcing Smith up into Bosa.
DeleteThat's good to hear, making the QB move is always good.
DeleteI have an great idea guys. I heard the 49ers are looking for a QB to replace Trey Lance.
DeleteWhat about TIM TEBOW? He's probably an upgrade over Lance, for the way Kyle wants to run his offense, because Tebow is probably a better runner than Trey Lance between the tackles. And if Kyle thinks he doesn't need a QB who can pass the ball efficiently from the pocket, then why not Tim Tebow.
Now I can practically hear you guys saying - "but we spent 3 first-round picks on Trey Lance."
Well I have news for you guys. Kyle apparently doesn't see much value in first-round picks, and who can blame him if they can upgrade the QB position by simply signing a guy like Tebow off the streets?
Man, this brought a smile to my face! :)
ReplyDeletehttps://twitter.com/NFL/status/1572321493714960399
Hey you guys, I was just reminiscing a little bit.
ReplyDeleteRemember how excited we were this offseason, as we gazed the stars, trying to imagine Kyle Shanahan is his "laboratory", cooking up ways to get the most out of Trey Lance? Remember how John Lynch told us that Kyle had been using a cocktail napkin, drawing up creative ways to utilize Trey Lance's remarkable skill-set? Man, this wasn't just going to be another football season, this was going to be an "EXPERIENCE"! Imagine the creative ways in which Kyle Shanahan could open up his offense with a strong armed, mobile QB like Trey Lance, who was practically a savant when it came to playing QB, right? Don't you guys remember how we were told about Trey Lance's high-level ability to process from the pocket? According to John & Kyle, Trey Lance is special. He might not have much experience playing QB, but that didn't matter much to Kyle, because everyone knows how much of a genius Kyle Shanahan is. Not only that, Kyle Shanahan has already experienced an enormous amount of success with a duel-threat QB in RGIII. And now he's got a young prospect who might not be quite the runner that RGIII was, but from the pocket ... Trey Lance was far more evolved as a prospect!
I know you guys chuckled when you read this, especially Razoreater. You were trying not to react, but you laughed Razor, just admit it!
DeleteRazor no doubt scrolled right past your drivel.
DeleteGet over yourself. No one gaf about your gibberish babble.
Yep, not taking the cheese, Rib.
DeleteMarlon Mack is now on the 53
ReplyDeleteKurt Benkert is the New Niner QB.
ReplyDeleteWhy not Tim Tebow? He seems like the perfect QB for Kyle's 2022 triple-option offense!
DeleteDude knows the system having spent time with the Packers.
DeleteBTW guys, do you know why Josh Allen only ran the ball once on Monday Night? BECAUSE HE DIDN'T HAVE TO! Did Trey Lance NEED to run the football vs the Seahawks? Of course not. The 49ers were going to beat the Seahawks regardless of whether Kyle exposed his QB to an unnecessary injury risk, or not! And that's why so many 49er fans have such a problem with Trey's injury! What exactly was the point of running Trey Lance as many times as he passed the football vs the Seahawks?
DeleteHey guys, Trey Lance's surgeon is saying that Trey's recovery could be as soon as 10-12 weeks.
ReplyDeleteMy question to you guys is: Unless Jimmy gets hurt, what are the chances that Kyle keeps Trey away from the field, and least in terms of the active roster, for the entirety of the season, including playoffs?
I'd say 100%.
Do me a favor, and keep this receipt for me.
Recover =/= ready to play. That means how long it will be until his bone is solid, not that his joint has full mobility, not that his tendons have healed (they've been stressed to say the least), not that his calf muscle, which will have atrophied some, is back to a level thats good.
DeleteI broke my wrist years ago playing basketball (a fall and put my hands back to support and the wrist snapped). It was a worse break than Treys as mine was a full dislocation but thankfully the bone did not come thru the skin, and required a titanium plate and about 12ish screws. I was in a softcast for 6 weeks before starting any PT, and was another 6 weeks until it was good but still doesn't have 100% flexibility, strength came back quick tho. Now that was 12 weeks and was just a wrist, not a leg that supports weight, cuts, spins, and jumps.
Even if he's doing PT in 6ish weeks, he won't be game ready until well into January. The season is done for Trey, the best he can do is work on his understanding of the game (reading defense's, etc). Kyle will have no input on his availability.
This whole Trey Lance thing has been weird from the beginning. Started last TC when some wanted him to start because he made some plays against the second team defense. Then this offseason their was constant chatter about how they had to get rid of Garoppolo because among other things he would undermine Lance's confidence. Now many are angry because Shanahan had the audacity to use him the way he was used in College while he works on his consistency as a passer. I've never seen such a protectionist mindset of a player like I have with this kid. He's 6"4 225 LB's and didn't get hurt because of taking a big hit yet Shanahan is a horrible Coach because he put him in harms way? It's football for crying out loud. It sucks he's injured but people blaming Shanahan need to grow up honestly.
ReplyDeleteWe had one poster that even brought Lance's mom into the picture to defend Lance. Never seen anything like it.
DeleteIt's batshit crazy!
Delete"Now many are angry because Shanahan had the audacity to use him the way he was used in College while he works on his consistency as a passer."
DeleteMeh. I understand annoyance with 49reasons is leading to comments like this, but I really don't think it is unreasonable to believe the franchise QB should not be getting so many runs up the middle into traffic. Even if that is something he did in college.
There are other ways to incorporate his running ability without sending him into places where taking big hits are the norm.
BTW guys, just to bring attention to the fact that I am FAIR & BALANCED, well .... FAIR at least, I am fully prepared to admit that I was wrong about the 49ers INTERIOR OL, as well as the SAFETY position.
DeleteIt's obviously too early to know for certain, as we are only 2 games into the season, but I was very encouraged by what I saw from the OL vs Seattle, and TALANOA HUFANGA .... I mean, in a word - SPECTACULAR! This guy might have alien technology, because he's everywhere on the football field, all at the same time. He's proving something that I have been preaching all my life .... that INSTINCTS absolutely trump PHYSICAL ATTRIBUTES, when it comes to Safety and off-ball Linebacker!
Obviously Seattle doesn't have much in terms of a pass rushers, but they certainly have beef on the interior of their DL. Spencer Burford doesn't look like a rookie to me, and that in itself is impressive. But it was Aaron Banks that stole the show on the interior OL for me. He rebuilt his body during the offseason, and it shows. He's no longer just a big dude who leans on his behemoth size. He actually has the strength to his game, and I am especially impressed with his agility for a man who goes at least 330 lbs! Jake Brendel is still the weak link, but the question is, is he at least a legitimate NFL starter? The jury is still out on this question, and I can't help but wonder considering he's basically a first time starter at the age of 30, but I am no longer as concerned about OC as I was going into week 1, and I think there's a chance that Brendel can prove me wrong, and that's absolutely a big deal if he does, because as you guys know, I am rarely wrong!
A LESSON IN PHYSICS, AND THE ART OF PLAYING RB:
DeleteMost RB's spend their careers learning how to protect their body's while attempting to gain positive yardage. On the other hand, most QB's also learn how to protect themselves, but mostly from within the pocket. For instance, if you watch the way Trey Lance runs the football compared to, say, Elijah Mitchell, it's night & day in terms of their technique. Trey Lance runs very upright, while Mitchell basically runs "behind his shoulder pads". And Mitchell's technique is not something that NFL RB's are born with. It's something they learn as they develop. They learn that running with a low pad level creates a couple distinct advantages compared to running upright like Trey Lance does. The first advantage is is related to using their shoulder pads to absorb most of the impact, in order to protect their lower bodies, rather than taking direct hits their knees & ankles in particular. The second is about creating "leverage". And creating leverage is all about physics. It allows the RB to use his "momentum" more efficiently, which in turn allows the RB to run with more power while delivering more energy than they receive upon impact. This helps lower the frequency in which they get folded up like a cardboard box. And let's be honest, without trying to be disrespectful, Trey Lance got folded up like a cardboard box (or a cheap suit, pretzel, etc). And the fact is, both of these factors help protect the health of a RB. So Trey Lance, he never really had much of a chance!
Under, it's an easy to discern dynamic. Nearly all of the furious responses come from the vocal anti-Jimmy contingent. In their minds Shanahan pulled the rug out from under them, "destroying" both Trey and the teams chances of any kind of SB run. So they direct their fury at the HC and complain up and down that the season is already lost now with the limp game manager back under center.
Delete#fireshanahan
That anti-Jimmy contingent is a wolfpack of 1...might as well call them anti-49er.
DeleteIt's not unreasonable to question playcalls I agree but to blame the Coach because the player was injured is completely unreasonable imo. We can agree to disagree about our thoughts on how Lance was used but this is football and players get injured. It's not the Coaches fault.
DeleteNAE: That, frankly, is putting your head in the sand in the face of a risk analysis. For a RB running up the middle and into the defense is part of the job description. For a QB, there are many other tasks. Here's what Brian Baldinger had to say:
Delete"That first start against Arizona, he had 20 carries, and he got dinged at the goal line," Baldinger told 95.7 The Game's Bonta Hill and Joe Shasky on Tuesday morning. "It was just way too many. He had three runs (on Sunday vs. Seattle)—basically, three designed runs the other day. It's still early in the game now. So maybe it's too many, Joe.
"Part of drafting Trey Lance was you thought that, and the idea was, it could really enhance your powerful running game as it is, make the defense defend all 11 players. And it's something that they didn't have to do with Jimmy. And so the offense does have a different level to it that it doesn't have with Jimmy.
"But you can fall in love with too many quarterback runs—I don't care what the name on the back of the jersey is—because you know you're going to scramble for some. All of a sudden, you're going to start adding up quarterback runs. Like, too many.
"It's almost like the same issue people had with Deebo (Samuel) last year. We loved it, yet it was too many, and we might get to that now. I'm sure you're going to get some injuries, but you just want to kind of manage it and manage the hits, if you can, to guys that carry the football in positions where they've got a lot of other responsibilities besides being a runner."
https://www.49erswebzone.com/articles/161254-49ers-coach-kyle-shanahan-mismanage-lance-baldy-weighs/
Yep, agreed cubus (and Baldy).
DeleteJust saying "well that's football" is taking context out of the equation. Yes, guys do get hurt. But you also increase the risk by having the QB run into areas with lots of bodies and big collisions. The more you do it, the greater the risk.
And saying things like they needed to do it to be competitive while he learned to be a passer is (a) completely under selling where Lance is at as a passer relative to his peers - he's not perfect but he is ok and actually sees the field pretty well for a guy with 4 starts, and (b) ignoring there are other ways to incorporate the threat of him running that don't require him to run into heavy traffic on designed runs.
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DeleteAgain I disagree and have stated why. It's ok to agree to disagree on the play calling. It's a staple of fan interaction and radio talk shows,but blaming the Coach because of a freak injury is unreasonable imo. QB's are at risk in the pocket as much as they are running. That is football.
DeleteDavid Lombardi
ReplyDelete@LombardiHimself
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3h
Trey Lance discussion can be simpler than many are making it. 49ers drafted a very raw prospect and deemed they couldn't let his developmental passing mistakes compromise their chances of winning now. So they ran Lance heavily to begin. Unfortunately, he didn't last past Week 2..
It was a gamble that could've paid off big in November, but it's time to press forward.
Wait, so when Kyle wants us to believe that these are "very normal plays in all of football at all levels for everybody", and "we all need to watch the way other teams use their QB's", but the reality is, at least according to Lombardi, Kyle was forced to run Trey Lance into the ground, because Trey Lance was simply "too raw" to run his offense, even though he's in year 2?
DeleteNow I am confused Razoreater. Which is it?
Was Kyle being honest when he told reporters that he was simply using Trey the same way a lot of other team's are using their QB's, or was Kyle forced to "run Lance heavily" because he couldn't handle the same scheme as Jimmy?
Why in the world are you and Lombardi just glossing over the fact that Kyle spend 3 first-round picks on a QB who, in his 2nd season, is too raw to use as a typical NFL QB? It's ridiculous really! Just admit it .... Kyle screwed up! Trey Lance is still not capable of running Kyle's normal offense, even though he is in his 2nd NFL season. We gave Kyle and Trey a pass last season. But you don't spend that kind of draft capitol on a project at QB, when you are built to win now! That's just not good football business!
Kyle Shanahan officially deserves every bit of the ridicule he's now receiving for whiffing on the quarterback position AGAIN!
DeleteSpending 3 first-picks on a raw, project of a QB who, despite being in his 2nd NFL season, still can't run a pro-style offense!
This is exactly why I have been saying that Jed needs to take the big personnel decision away from Kyle's job description.
Because Kyle Shanahan wouldn't know a good NFL QB prospect if it bit him in the a_s! That's now a FACT!
Kyle has one flaw at times he gets too cute with our offense that seperates him from the great coaches.
ReplyDeleteWith Jimmy he should have let him more throw it and with Trey he should like Scooter mentioned run him less inside and more outside.
We have the right to have soms critique towards Kyle./
Since Jalen Hurts' rushing was brought up to defend the way Lance was used, I thought I would take a look over his running plays this season. So I watched all their offensive plays the first two games this season.
ReplyDeleteAnyone wanting to see how the 49ers should have been using Lance should watch some Eagles games.
It's a matter of time before Hurts is hurt.
DeleteThis is my last comment on the matter. I'm sorry Lance got hurt, but it's football. It was a freak accident, and in no way do I believe Shanny is in anyway responsible for his injury; the same way that if Deebo got injured playing wideback.
DeleteIf Lance had run for a touchdown instead of breaking bones, both you and 49reasons would have said what a great call and that's why we drafted Lance. I would have said maybe that trade wasn't so bad. Hurts can spin the ball Lance as of yet cannot, so he runs.
DeleteI will go with your lead, Razor that's my last comment on the subject.
DeleteYou can't compare the two accurately because each is in a different point of their career. I don't think there is enough consideration given to just how raw Lance is as a player. Shanahan is trying to develop him while also competing for a SB. Getting the most out of Lance includes running plays he's comfortable with which features some of the runs some fans hate. You can't force him to play a game he's not comfortable with and expect to win games. It's a balancing act and unfortunately it's going to take longer now but that's football.
DeleteUnder, I agree Hurts will likely get hurt at some point to. He runs a lot and takes some hits. But they do a pretty good job of isolating him one on one or in space on the few designed runs he has per game. And the vast majority of his runs are scrambles.
DeleteAs far as comparing he and Lance... honestly, that's the closest comparison there is right now.
And if Lance ran for a TD on that play, yeah, I am probably not writing anything about it specifically. But I assure you I didn't like how he was being used on those inside runs dating back to his first career start.
Better comparison is Josh Allen who Shanahan liked for quite awhile. Like Lance, Allen was not a consistent passer and ran quite a bit his first couple of years, actually he still runs a lot now. He is getting smarter about the hits he takes but took a lot on early on. That is where Lance is at and until he is able to hurt teams consistently with his passing, he'll be running the football and sometimes that will be inside zone.
DeleteHow long before Benkert takes over? He's the closest to Lance's arm strength with Danny Gray in the offense.
ReplyDeleteHe rushed twice in his career...dudes ready for some power runs up the middle for sure.
DeleteI sure hope we draft a center next year; I know things like left tackle and continuing building the defense are very important but still... Get a center and let him grow with Lance. Might need a cornerback as well. It will be the final draft without a first-round pick. I think a Center at 64 would be a better pick than most anything else.
ReplyDeleteI think Zakelj is getting groomed for center, Under and get thrown in the mix.
DeleteOh, that's right I forgot, and he has attitude.
DeleteRB Tevon Coleman back on the practice squad.
ReplyDeleteBig Shanny will have a suite view of the Broncos getting their asses kicked Sunday night.
ReplyDeleteWomack:
ReplyDelete• 36 coverage snaps
• 7 targets
• 29 total yards allowed
• 0 first downs
• 0 touchdowns