TREY LANCE 40 Runs As A Starter:
Scrambles - 14Zone-Read - 10
Power - 9
Draws - 4
Sneaks - 3
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Gameday Week 15: 49ers vs Dolphins
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Whats crazy is that Trey had attempted to slide on the play that he broke his ankle, maybe once he's fully recovered he can get Ricky Henderson in to show him a thing or two about sliding.
ReplyDeleteThis is one of the biggest failures of Kyle's career. Heck, it's one of the biggest failures of any NFL HC's career!
ReplyDeleteThe NFL Rulebook: RULE 7, SECTION 2, ARTICLE 1, says a play is over when any ball carrier – not just a quarterback – declares himself down “by sliding feet-first on the ground. When a runner slides feet first, the ball is dead the instant he touches the ground with anything other than his hands or his feet, and if a runner is hit by a defender". What an advantage this rule is for mobile QB's, because the NFL evolved this rule even further in relation to the QB position, with the results being that if a defender merely touches a QB in the act of sliding, it amounts to an Unsportsmanlike Conduct - 15 Yard Penalty, as well as an automatic 1st down!
The NFL’s “slide rule” has been around for nearly 40 years now, so imagine developing a kid like Trey Lance? Imagine, as a HC, learning early on in the process that your mobile young QB doesn't understand how to slide? And then imagine, as a HC, this same young QB getting hurt in is very first start VS Arizona, because he hasn't yet developed this skillset. And then imagine, as a HC, STILL not putting an emphasis Trey Lance's development that he learns how to slide? How could this happen as a HC, especially considering that this HC was RGIII's OC during his MVP year, and career wrecking knee injury? How is this something that didn't raise concerns for Kyle on the first day of training camp of Trey's rookie year? I'll go one further ... how did this not come to Kyle's attention after watching an extensive amount of Trey's college game film during his initial evaluation, prior to the draft, when he never used this technique once during his record-breaking season at ND State?
And did Rich Scangarello have any experience developing a mobile QB? What's the point of spending 3 first round picks on a "RAW" duel-threat QB if the HC doesn't even care to properly develop him?
I'm not saying the 49ers should fire Kyle at this point, but this IS a fire-able offense, IMO! And then to use Trey the way Kyle was using him .... this should unacceptable to every 49ers fan!
Seems like most knowledgeable people such as Steve Young and Kyle Juszczyk just to name a couple are saying blaming KS for this injury is just not right. It's football and injuries happen, some of them are gruesome Joe Theismann and Alex Smith come to mind. I don't want to belittle the injuries to NFL players, but they happen. Sometimes those injuries don't show up till after their careers are over - concussions. Football is hard on the body and that is just the way it is. It sucks but it's a violent sport.
ReplyDeleteAdd Brent Jones too.
DeleteYup others too.
DeleteA lot of those knowledgeable people are 49ers players or ex-players, or guys with a strong personal relationship with Kyle. Plenty of knowledge people saying he is at least partially responsible too.
DeleteFunny thing is, with Young, he then went on to say the team needs to rethink how they use Lance when he comes back. Huh? So blaming Shanahan for using Lance on those runs is 'goofball', but they shouldn't use him in the same way any more. Got it.
Scooter fair enough about relationship, I doubt they are lying though. National media seems to believe its football, it sucks but KS is not to blame. Regardless of what anyone says we are all entitled to our own opinions. You already know I don't like running QB's and yes, I agree with he shouldn't have been running, I would have said that if he was running outside to. He was drafted to run so be it, he ran he got hurt and really there isn't much more to say about it. Scrambling is different. See I somewhat agree with you he should not have been running. Now if you design a play for Tom Brady to run well then, we can talk if it's a coach's fault.
DeleteYeah, for mine it is more about where they were running him than how often, though I do also think 3 designed runs in one quarter is too many (especially given all three were up the middle).
DeleteThe shame of it all is that now he will head into 2023 not having played much football since 2019. My personal opinion is Lance's development in 2022 was more important than the marginal gain in win percent from heavily involving his running ability in the game plan. A difficult balance to strike to be sure, but as I have said, I think there were ways to get him involved in the run game that would have exposed him to less risk of injury.
And here is what STEVE YOUNG had to say on KNBR in regards to the same kinds of questions surrounding Kyle’s reckless game-plan for Trey's first NFL start, VS Arizona last season -
DeleteSTEVE YOUNG on KNBR (8/11/2021): “THAT (Trey’s game plan) IS NOT REPLICABLE, RIGHT? That’s not something we (Kyle) can keep doing. That’s just clearly an effort to get him kind of in the mix. What’s obvious to me, Larry, is that he’s not trusted. He’s young, in his first game. When I say not trusted, people are gonna overreact. What rookie in his first start is trusted? Nobody. What I’m saying is it’s a sign that I don’t want to put him in a spot where, you know, I know, for a fact that if I put him on the run, that’s going to be something that he’s going to be very comfortable with and maybe we can get away with some things”.
KNBR: The problem, according to Steve, is that QUARTERBACK RUNS SHOULD TYPICALLY BE DECONGESTED ATTEMPTS! Lance was dealing with significant traffic when he carried the ball, and it’s not a recipe for Lance to thrive. He can’t be in those situations consistently.
STEVE YOUNG cont.(8/11/2021): “You hope that you have the extra blocker and extra little deception and then there’s not so many tough yards. YOU DO NOT WANT TRE LANCE OUT THERE RUNNING FOR THE TOUGH YARDS! No quarterback [should], not even Cam Newton; most of the yards the quarterback gets, 80 percent of them (running yards) should be UNCONTESTED. That’s the whole point. And then the last 20 percent, you’ve got to figure out a way to GET TO THE GROUND (SLIDE!) or get out of the way and not take a big hit.”
I highlighted the part where Steve Young said LAST YEAR, that Trey Lance needs to figure out a way to GET TO THE GROUND, in other words, he needs to SLIDE!
Where have we heard this point before, guys? Oh yah, that's something that I have been harping on since the injury.
Somebody, anybody, Razoreater, undercenter, eMJay, ribico, please explain to me how you can defend Kyle Shanahan, even though Trey admitted that he only started working on it late in THIS YEAR'S training camp! NOT LAST YEAR ... NOT OVER THE SUMMER ... NOT DURING OTA's ... NOT EVER until right before the start of the season!
Of all of Kyle's mistakes since taking over the 49ers, this to mean, is simply UNNACCEPTABLE! This type of oversight, is almost criminal, IMO. It's certainly a fire-able offense. Again, I'm not saying they should fire Kyle right now, but they should strip him of some of his power, and put somebody else in charge of Trey's development, because Kyle is FAILING Trey Lance, failing at his job of HC, and failing the fans!
I don't understand why you guys seem to be OK with the fact that Kyle never made LEARNING HOW TO SLIDE a priority in Trey's development! This is a scandal really, because it's INDISPUTABLE that Kyle completely drop the ball on this.
DeleteIt' mobile QB development - 101. we're talking the basics. It would be like a parent trying teach his kid how to ride a bike before they even learned to walk!
What in world is with you guys? Go back and watch the gruesome play in which Trey gets his ankle all broken to shreds! It sure looks to me as if he's trying to slide. I just need to say, with NO DISRESPECT INTENDED, that Trey was attempting to slide. It was a feeble - and dare I say pathetic - attempt to slide by a QB who clearly hasn't really even practiced it, and hasn't developed the skill.
THAT IS UNEQUIVACALLY UNNACCPETABLE considering the circumstances, and you guys all know it! GRRRRR!
I hope you guys know that I don't think Kyle is incapable of being an outstanding HC. All I am saying is that he continues making mistakes in terms of the big, organization-wide decisions. Most of the top teams, like for instance the World-Champion LA Rams, have kind of insulated the GM from the HC, for good reason. I understand that Bill Belichick has been able to do it all, at a super high level, but he had TB12 for 20 years. Suddenly Belichick looks like he's in way over his head without the GOAT bailing him out.
DeleteKyle's W-L record is below .500, but I want you guys to know that I believe Kyle is a very capable HC in many respects. Not all respects obviously, but many. Here are the qualities that I believe he does well as the Head Coach of the 49ers:
1) Coaching non-mobile QB's (not developing, but coaching)
2) Building from a non-personnel standpoint, a strong, resilient team that plays hard for one another
3) Developing and maintaining a cutting-edge rushing attack
4) He has a terrific nose for outstanding coaching on both sides of the ball (Saleh, Ryans, Forester, Kocurek, Lynn, McDaniels, Holland, Turner, etc)
5) Understanding of play-action concepts, and the relation between play-action and run game concepts
6) Clock management has improved a great deal
Lance had 190 college carries, 55 of which went between the tackles, averaging 8.9 yards per carry....
DeletePlenty of college QBs do a lot of running, both inside and outside. Just because running up the middle works in college doesn’t mean its a great idea to keep doing it in the NFL.
DeleteHe was good at it. He had some beautiful runs in his short debut. The option play where he kept and got hurt, I thought McGlinchey had the best run block since he's been here.
DeleteWell Razoreater, it's clear that you are going to simply ignore the issue of sliding, and what to me seems to be a massive developmental oversight, and perhaps fatal in terms of trey Lances career. I hope he's the same guy when he returns, but Dak Prescott certainly isn't fully recovered in his second post-ankle-surgery season, and I have my doubts he ever will be.
DeleteSo fine, let's get to the question of Trey's usage running the football for the top FCS College Football program. It's college, and it's not even the highest level of NCAA Football. The jump from the FCS to the Pro's is massive jump. trey talked about in depth just last week. And while Trey Lance is a talented runner, he's not nearly as fast as Lamar or Kyler, and he's nowhere as big and durable as Josh Allen. And then when you factor in the fact that Trey doesn't even quite have a game-plan when it comes to protecting his body, that seems like a recipe for disaster to me, especially if you're going to keep lining him up in pistol or shotgun formation, and running him straight into the teeth of opposing team's base-defense (without a lead blocker), that's not sustainable.
Steve Young knew it after trey's first NFL start, and do you guys remember how upset I was after the Arizona game last season, because you can go back and read my posts. I assumed that the "knee injury" Trey suffered in that game, that he never felt he got into bed that evening, was a bit of exaggeration, aimed at making it logical to go right back to Jimmy, even though Jimmy was both struggling at that stage, and nursing his own injury.
but what was clear to me after Trey's first NFL start, clearer than just about another question, was that he didn't know how to properly protect himself, in the heat of battle. Sliding, going out of bounds, and generally trying to protect his body whenever possible, wasn't something came natural to him, or a skill set that he had developed.
SO WHY WASN'T THAT IMMEDIATELY THE NUMBER ONE PRIORITY IN TERMS OF HIS DEVBOPMENT, MOVING FORWARD FROM HIS FIRST START? That's the part of this that I find most troubling. And if Kyle didn't have enough sense to make that a point of emphasis after watching the Arizona game game film, then I have ZERO faith in Kyle Shanahan's ability to develop the 49ers QB position moving forward. That's tough considering Kyle is the decider, isn't it?
Razoreater, wasn't that your biggest takeaway after Trey's first NFL start VS Arizona? That he didn't really have much of game-plan in terms of protecting himself on the field?
DeleteAnd I'm not trying to be a Monday morning QB on this (pardon the pun). And I was shocked when Trey talked about sliding in his preseason week 1 press conference, and how that was the first time he had ever slid at any level of football, going back to high school, and that only started working on about 2/3rds of the way thru THIS YEAR'S training camp! Jaw dropping!
Also, I am not just disappointed in Kyle. I am also disappointed in Trey. And I should probably be a little clearer about that. I've been hard on Jimmy for his lack of developmental progress for years, so I can't simply give Trey a pass on this. Trey needs to take the bull by the horns.
DeleteAnd as for Jimmy's lack of developmental progress. I am starting to wonder if it has more to do with Kyle than I had originally thought. Is Jimmy really this limited in terms of say - his passing chart would suggest, or are Jimmy's limits as a downfield passer, more about Kyle being unable to find a way to get more out of Jimmy in respect to this? That's where I am at now.
I think we might find out more about Kyle during the remainder of this season, than we've been able to deduce during the previous 5 seasons.
Moseley has not given up a touchdown as the nearest coverage defender in 21 consecutive games since Week 9 of the 2020 season, according to Pro Football Refrence.
ReplyDeleteHe's going to be expensive. Doubt he'll be playing for us next year.
DeleteTough to resign Mosely, with how much they are paying Mooney, and that's OK. Lenoir is coming along well, maybe Lenoir takes over in the slot next year and Womack moves to the outside. Frankly Womack can play anywhere in the secondary at a high level. Ambrey Thomas is a gamer, meaning he's better in games than he is practice. I don't think they can ever count on Verrett as a starter, but he can continue to provide strong help off the bench if they bring him back on the cheap.
Delete@Razor, never know tho. We all remember Goldson thinking he was going to break the bank yet seemed he was back that following year on a prove it deal.
DeleteI don't think many people view Moseley the same way we do.
Hoping he stays but true, he could be costly.
My only eyebrow raiser with Shanny teams is the collapse of the defense in critical 4th quarter games.
ReplyDeleteBy the way Scooter there are lots of play calls that I question KS on so...
That, in my opinion, is directly correlated to keeping the defense fresh by running the ball 30+ times a game.
DeleteHave you seen any Lions games this year, Under? Their running traps, long traps, wham, duo, counter duo, counter, super counter, counter yy, inside zone, power, wind back, outside zone, zorro, toss crack, sweep and g-lead. Dunno if they can sustain, but this might be the answer to these smaller, faster defenses built to stop the pass.
They're doing it at a high level too. Kinda amazing when you think about all the different technique involved, and on top of that, the different applications against varying fronts. Pretty impressive from that offensive line of theirs.
DeleteI have seen quite a few games but no Lions games. I had surgery last week and I got lots of time maybe tomorrow.
Delete