Carolina Panthers
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#Panthers agree to trade for Baker Mayfield
panthers.com/news/baker-may
More: The #Browns
will pay Baker Mayfield $10.5 million this season, which means they trimmed over $8 million in cash and salary-cap space. The #Panthers will pay Mayfield ~$5 million. Mayfield agreed to trim ~$3.5 million off his base salary. Will the Browns and the 49ers make a similar deal for Jimmy G?
will pay Baker Mayfield $10.5 million this season, which means they trimmed over $8 million in cash and salary-cap space. The #Panthers will pay Mayfield ~$5 million. Mayfield agreed to trim ~$3.5 million off his base salary. Will the Browns and the 49ers make a similar deal for Jimmy G?
The Browns had no leeway salary wise - Baker's contract was guaranteed. I just can't see the benefit for the 49ers to eat a chunk of salary for a future day 3 pick.
ReplyDeleteMe either but that doesn't rule out the Browns from making the trade and renegotiate his deal.
DeleteThe timing of this trade tells me the Browns have a good idea as to what Watson's fate will be. I don't think they want Brissett as their 17 game starter. Either they've got another quarterback in mind or Watson is getting a hand slap.
ReplyDeleteMaybe. Baker was never going to play for the Browns again regardless.
Delete
ReplyDeleteRobert Griffin III
@RGIII
· 1h
If Deshaun Watson is suspended for an extended period of time, the Browns should trade for Jimmy Garoppolo. No matter how you feel about Jimmy G, he is a proven winner for a roster ready to win now.
I agree the Browns should.
DeleteBut I don't think the 49ers should be willing to eat any of his salary though unless the Browns are willing to give up high draft picks.
Agreed.
DeleteGeorge here. Given the cheap cost of picking up Mayfield, I'm surprised Seattle either didn't bid for him or, if they did, bid less.
ReplyDeleteSeattle is tanking this season. That's why. Which means they aren't in the market for Garoppolo either. They want a reset with a top QB draft prospect (Stroud, Young).
DeleteI am a little surprised that so many people are missing the obvious - Jimmy Garoppolo wants to be released, because he realizes there isn't a market for him to make anywhere near $27M this season, and he wants to pick his next destination. Connect the dots guys.
ReplyDeleteDon't we need to reevaluate Jimmy's value after the Baker deal? A 2024 5th round pick? 2024? I think this is the part of the Jimmy equation that falls on the 49ers shoulders. It sure seems like the Niners have overestimated Jimmy value since, well, the beginning of time.
DeleteThankfully, Jimmy Garoppolo is basically irrelevant at this stage for the San Francisco 49ers. Trey Lance's time has come, and from all of my intel - Trey Lance is the real deal, and has it all! He's poised to take the NFL by storm this season, and I am am 100% here for it!
DeleteAlso, since I am being a little critical about the 49ers handling of Jimmy G, I think it's only fair that I give Kyle, and the 49ers FO the highest possible praise for the way they handled the Deebo Samuel saga this offseason. As far as I am concerned, they get a pass now on with the entire Jimmy situation .... as long as he isn't still around by the time training camp comes around. If they allow Jimmy to take the field during training camp, and risk being on the hook for his entire $ 26,950,000., rather than clearing that space, and giving Trey Lance a pathway, then I think everybody's job should be on the line if Trey fails to get the Niners to the postseason this season.
DeleteI don't know how obvious it is JG wants to be released. His preference may be to get traded and stay on his salary for a year.
DeleteOne last point - Nate Sudfeld. I just don't get this. I don't understand how Kyle and John could make such a big deal about making sure that they had a capable backup QB just one offseason ago, and then hand the keys to backup Nate Sudfeld, who by all accounts, has never won a regular season game, and frankly, doesn't look the part of a viable backup NFL QB. I sure hope that Brock Purdy is in the mold of Jeff Garcia, and earns the #2 role. I've seen absolutely nothing from Nate Sudfeld that tells me he's a viable NFL backup, and if that's the case, I think it's fair to ask about the talk of the importance of the backup QB position?
ReplyDeleteBTW guys, maybe we should do a "best FA signings" for the Niners this offseason. The top 3 seem pretty clear: CB - CHARVARIUS WARD, DE - KEMOKO TURAY, WR/KR RAY RAY MCCLOUD III.
ReplyDeleteI LOVE all 3 signings, but my vote goes for ... DE - KEMOKO TURAY! I think He's going to emerge as a DEE FORD like presence on this 49ers DL, under Kris Kocurek's tutelage.
David Lombardi
ReplyDelete@LombardiHimself
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16h
For what it's worth, the Browns now have over $48 million in 2022 salary-cap space after trading away Baker Mayfield and offloading over $8 million of his guaranteed salary. So, more than enough to pursue Jimmy Garoppolo if they'll need a QB after the Deshaun Watson dust settles
Jimmy week 1 starter, its happening.
ReplyDeleteHOW BOUT THAT!
ReplyDeleteRaiders hire Sandra Douglass Morgan as first Black woman to serve as team president in NFL history.
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/raiders-hire-sandra-douglass-morgan-as-first-black-woman-to-serve-as-team-president-in-nfl-history-201003869.html
ReplyDeleteDan Sileo
@DanSileoShow
word is we will know more NEXT week where JIMMY G goes based on the #DeshaunWatson ruling! #GoBucs #FTTB
2:09 PM · Jul 8, 2022·Twitter Web App
ReplyDeleteDan Sileo
@DanSileoShow
The .
@Buccaneers
and
@49ers
are trying to make a trade work for
@jimmyG_10
!! #Fttb #GoBucs
7:39 PM · Jul 7, 2022·Twitter Web App
ReplyDeleteTed Nguyen
@FB_FilmAnalysis
·
1h
Asked a member of the 49er coaching staff about Trey Lance “arm fatigue”
His response “I’ve never heard anything about that a day in my life”
The arm fatigue stuff has always been such a weird storyline.
Delete“We’ll see where it goes from there. But I guess it’s possible that the 49ers would pay some of that. Any amount less than $24.2 million, that’s savings on the salary cap that they can use for Deebo Samuel, Nick Bosa and whomever else. So it’s interesting to say the least. And just a couple of weeks ago Kyle Shanahan said he still expects Jimmy Garoppolo to be traded before the start of the season. And I just wonder if when he said it was wishful thinking or if he had a pretty good idea that once Garoppolo gets cleared medically from the shoulder surgery, and once the Browns have clarity on what the situation is with Deshaun Watson, will something be in the works or has something been talked about already?
ReplyDeleteMatt Maiocco yesterday.
DeleteAs I mentioned yesterday, the plan for Jimmy and his camp all along, was to be released, because there was no market for him this season @$27M, and he wants to pick his next destination. And now it all makes sense.
ReplyDeleteBy the way, the guy who broke this story - Dan Sileo, also mentioned that Jimmy wouldn't be ready to play until about a full months into this regular season, at the earliest.
Now let me go beck to Jimmy's camp, and especially Don Yee. It ends up that Jimmy and Tom Brady have the same agent. So Jimmy landing in Tampa Bay to backup Tom, in order to take over when Tom retires after this season, makes a ton of sense (Tom and Jimmy are in fact, fairly close friends), only at nothing close to $27M, which brings us back to the market. The Bucs currently have $12.8M in cap space, and it's expected to be less than that by training camp. Why wouldn't the Bucs just wait until the 49ers release Jimmy, since he's likely not going to be ready for live action until October?
The Bucs will wait, which was the plan all along.
Dan Sileo: "So here's what's being thrown around. Don Yee doesn't want to trade Garoppolo to a back up position. However, Garoppolo's shoulder injury put him in that room. He's not going to be ready for the start of the regular season in September. He probably will miss the first four games anyway."
DeleteObviously, the biggest news in all of this is that Jimmy won't be healthy enough to play until October. Personally, I heard he won't be able to play in the preseason, but I hasn't heard that he would miss almost 1/4th of the season. If that's the case, there is absolutely NO trade market for Jimmy's contract ($27M - 2022). He's likely going to be released at the last possible moment before the 49ers are on the hook for his entire $27M salary. It's not that Jimmy isn't worth anything, it's just a combination of his injury, and the 49ers being on the hook for $27M this season, that ends up dictating the eventual outcome.
DeleteThere is a small chance that the 49ers will take on the guaranteed portion of Jimmy's salary, and the Bucs can work out an extension, and give the 49ers a conditional 5th round pick that can turn into a 4th round pick, but that seems like a long shot. This was a stroke of genius by Don Yee and his cleientJimmy, and it really hurts the 49ers.
DeleteI meant there is a chance that the 49ers would take on the "injury guaranteed" portion of Jimmy's contract, and salvage something in return, but it seems like a longshot to me.
DeleteHis injury guarantee becomes irrelevant once he passes his physical. Not a factor whatsoever.
DeleteTrue if the 49ers just release him, and he eventually passes a physical. But it's relevant if were talking abt any kind of trade. The 49ers want to get that amount off the books, asap, at the very least, don't they? I'm just saying that I could see that being a part of the trade. The 49ers are going to have to pick up at least $10M of Jimmy's contract if they want to trade him, right?
DeleteLet's put it this way. No matter what, it's huge mess. I think the odds of Jimmy just simply being released are at least 95%, but if they release him before he passes a physical, which also now seems likely, they will be on the hook for that until he signs on with the Bucs, or someone else.
DeleteYou did catch the part where Jimmy won't be able to play full contact by week 1? How does he pass a physical in time for the 49ers to release him before they are on the hook for his entire $27M? Very confusing.
DeleteHe has to be able to pass his physical before he can be traded. If he's already been throwing the ball for the past 2 weeks I'd say he can pass his physical.
DeleteYep, being able to pass a physical is different to being physically ready to play a game. If he is already able to throw a ball, decent chance he'll be able to pass a physical soon enough.
DeleteThat's actually not true. He can be traded before he passes a physical. It's likely that a team will want him to pass a physical before he's traded, but a team may decide there is not much risk if the 49ers are willing to cover his injury guaranteed portion of the contract. That's the point.
DeleteLet's just say Jimmy is unable to pass a physical, well then the 49ers are responsible to pay him only his injury guaranteed portion of his contract. Well the same goes for any team that is willing to risk trading for him before he passes a physical.
My best guess is the the 49ers will likely have to pick up at least $12M of the $27M Jimmy will be due this season when (actually if, because there is no 100% guarantee he will be healthy this season) just to facilitate a trade, because nobody is paying $27M for Jimmy right now, coming off an injury this late in the process. That $27M is a NON STARTER as they say.
But if the 49ers pick up $12M, which includes the injury guarantee, suddenly there is less risk and some value in trading for Jimmy. That figure is calculated as follows: Jimmy's $7M - injury guarantee, plus an addition $5M of his 2022 salary.
The above numbers are probably in the ballpark of the portion the 49ers will need to pick up, just to facilitate a trade, until as Baldy said, until Jimmy proves he can take hit and get back up. And that's not happening before he's traded, IF he's even traded. This is why this is such a tough situation for the 49ers to unload his contract AND recoup much of any draft capitol, which is why he'll likely be released. And if the 49ers release him before he passes a physical, they can be confident that they will eventually recoup the injury guarantee once Jimmy eventually signs on with the Bucs as a FA.
DeleteThe Bucs can be patient. They have Tom Brady, who has proven to be an extremely durable starter, much more durable than Jimmy in fact. Sure, they'd like to get Jimmy in to backup Tom this season, ASAP, but if they already know Jimmy will be willing to sign with them once he's released, which is likely the case when you follow the bread crumbs, why would they give up much of anything for him? When I stated that Jimmy wanted to be released, this is the type of scenario I envisioned.
DeleteThe 49ers can say no, were not just going to release Jimmy all they want, but the fact is their hands are kind of tied unless they are willing to pay Jimmy $27M to hold Trey's clip board, and that would be the worst case scenario for the 49ers, so that's not going to happen.
So I am going on the record now and saying that the 49ers will release Jimmy, perhaps even before he even passes a physical, in which case the 49ers will then be on the hook for about $7M (Jimmy's injury guarantee). Jimmy will then then sign with the Bucs as a FA. The only question at this point is whether Jimmy will sign with the Bucs right away, or wait until he passes a physical, sometime in mid August, at which time the 49ers will be able to recoup the $7M. Jimmy will sign a very reasonable, team-friendly deal with the Bucs, something in the ballpark of 4 years - $80M, with a chance to make more if he ends up starting a certain number of games for the Bucs this season.
The 49ers shouldn't agree to take on any of his salary and I highly doubt his contract will remain as is with whichever team trades for him. The team trading for him will already have agreed a restructured deal with JG before a trade goes through (if a trade happens).
DeleteI am not saying that I think the 49ers should take on $12M of his salary. What I am saying is - if the 49ers want to get something in return for Jimmy, they will need to pick up a substantial portion of his contract, which amounts to essentially buying a 4th or 5th round pick.
DeleteThe 49ers have no leverage at this point, so I don't think they will get anything for Jimmy in a trade, unless they are willing to eat a portion of Jimmy's salary. I thought that before the Browns picked up $10.5M, which is over half of $18.8M remaining on Baker's contract. And Baker is healthy, and from what I've heard, Jimmy won't be able to pass a physical any time soon.
So many people are assuming that Jimmy is going to do the 49ers a favor by agreeing to restructure the final year of his contract, and I don't get the impression that either Jimmy, or his agent Don Yee, think that's beneficial for Jimmy. Jimmy's set for life from a financial standpoint. Why wouldn't he rather shop himself around as a free agent? Therefore, I just don't understand how the 49ers recoup anything in return for him at this point.
DeleteSo here is what I think is going to happen - the 49ers are going to "grant Jimmy his release, because they want to do right by him." That's the way they are going to justify not getting anything in return for him. It makes the 49ers look like they always respect their players self interests, and are a player friendly team.
Sorry guys, but that's the reality. And it's OK, because Jimmy doesn't really matter any more. The $27M tied up in his contract is actually much more valuable than Jimmy, as far as the 49ers are concerned, because behind the scenes this offseason, they've moved on. It's Trey's team now, for better or for worse.
Dude, have you still not been able to learn how to put all your thoughts into one post?
DeleteCOULD IT HAPPEN?
ReplyDeleteReport: Tampa Bay Buccaneers Have Real Interest in San Francisco 49ers Quarterback, Jimmy Garoppolo.
The final quarterback name on the trade market may change coasts when all is said and done......
https://sports.yahoo.com/m/08737d36-48a0-3873-baa9-39227684af9f/report%3A-tampa-bay-buccaneers.html
SOME GOOD NEWS, THE 9ERS ARE GOING TO THE SB.
ReplyDeleteNFL Media’s Adam Rank, the guy that famously guessed the 9ers would go 3-13 in 2019, when they wound up going to the Super Bowl,
has predicted the 9ers will go 9W - 8L this season.
https://ninerswire.usatoday.com/lists/nfl-network-49ers-schedule-prediction-2022/?itm_source=parsely-api
Heh, now the rumour is the Seahawks want to trade for JG. If they are willing to send a draft pick to the 49ers for him, I say go for it.
ReplyDeleteScooter, by my calculations that would give Warner at least 2 Int's in 2022.
Delete🤣
DeleteYah, trading Jimmy to Seattle would be an ultra-risky proposition if your John Lynch, so I don't see any chance for that whatsoever. It's one thing to grant Jimmy's release, and having him sign with Seattle as a FA. That might actually happen, but it's mostly out of John Lynch's control at that point. But imagine the optics if Lynch trades Jimmy to Seattle, and Seattle ends up outpacing the 49ers in their division this season, behind Garoppolo. There would be no coming back from that if Your John Lynch, which is why I am with Maiocco when he says: “I do find that difficult to believe, that a team would trade for him. I mean, the one scenario where I could you would be if the NFL brings the hammer down on Deshaun Watson. Seattle to me would probably be more of an option if the 49ers release Garoppolo,” Maiocco said. “And then they could say, ‘Hey, what about us? Here’s what we’re willing to pay.'”
DeleteReleasing him makes the least sense. If you trade him to Seattle at least you got something back in return, but releasing him just so he signs with Seattle would make the front office look like idiots.
DeleteMaiocco is a jimmy slanderer, don't put any faith in his words.
And that's another thing; Doesn't Jimmy stand to make the most money as a free agent? I think the answer to that is undoubtedly - YES. If a team doesn't have to give up any draft capitol (or a player) in order to get Jimmy, doesn't that theoretically mean that would make Jimmy more valuable, and less of a risk? Of course it does. Jimmy has every incentive to either collect the $27M from the 49ers and then shop himself around next offseason, OR, secure his release and then shop himself around as soon as he is healthy enough to pass a physical. Jimmy's already set for life financially, so I don't see any incentive for him to do the 49ers a favor and negotiate against himself in order to facilitate a trade. Why would he do that, when he has more value as a FA?
DeleteBy the way, Matt Maiocco is the ultimate straight-shooter. He's almost nerdy like that. He may not always be correct (I mean, who is?), but he is NOT a slanderer of any kind, shape, or form.
DeleteHow is that any different than Seattle outpacing the 49ers in 2023, if Jimmy signs with Seattle as a FA next season?
DeletePlayers leave via free agency and sign on with division rivals all of the time. These things happen often. But it's unheard of to actually TRADE a QB to a division rival, especially only one season removed from a trip to the conference championships. There is a reason why inter-divisional trades of any kind, rarely happen, and especially a starting QB.
That is simply not going to happen! John Lynch would be 100% out of a job, and back in the broadcasting booth if he trades Jimmy to Seattle and Seattle outpaces the 49ers, and he knows it.
The Eagles did it. Don't be scared of Jimmy.
DeleteI understand the strategy of holding Jimmy for as long as possible, so that he doesn't have an opportunity to acclimate with a new team during training camp, whether he eventually signs with Seattle, or I am sure the 49ers are hoping some other team. That strategy is 100% viable, and I suspect that's the reason they haven't released Jimmy already. As far as the injury guarantee goes, as I explained, that's a bogus argument. The 49ers would recoup 100% of that $7M if, or more like WHEN, Jimmy eventually signs on with another team when he's finally healthy (as long as he receives $7M in compensation, which of course he would), so that doesn't seem like the biggest reason to hold onto to Jimmy until he passes a physical. It's much more likely that nobody has offered anything much of value in return for an injured QB who everyone knows is almost certainly going to be on the free agent marked once he's eventually released. And since he might sign with Seattle, it makes much more sense to at least hold onto Jimmy thru camp, so that he can't get off to a decent start. Doesn't it?
DeleteThe Eagles did what?
DeleteAnd what if they release Jimmy and he can't pass a physical, and thus doesn't sign on with another team this season? Well then the 49ers are out that $7.5M anyways, which is why it doesn't really matter when he passes a physical. I don't quite understand why more people aren't understanding how this injury guarantee works. The only way the 49ers aren't going to eventually recoup that $7.5M is if Jimmy never passes a physical this year, and thus never signs on to another team. But if that happens, the 49ers are on the hook for it anyways, so what exactly is the downside of releasing Jimmy before he passes a physical?
DeleteThe Eagles traded their qb within the division, and Jimmy won't be released until he's able to pass his physical; which should be anytime soon.
DeleteWhat QB?
DeleteThe Eagles traded a starting QB to a division rival, and that GM kept his job?
DeleteMcNabb, plus BB did it when he traded Bledsoe to the Bills.
DeleteAgain, you aren't explaining WHY the 49ers can't, or won't release Jimmy before he passes a physical. You're just saying it as of it's fact without any reasoning behind it.
DeletePretty obvious why. $7.5 mill release unable to pass physical versus $2 mill if he can.
DeleteAnd the only possible scenario whereby Jimmy CAN'T pass his physical is if he had a setback, and we have heard the direct opposite. He's been throwing for 2 weeks and everything is proceeding as expected.
DeleteOK, Bledsoe was a backup at that point, he had already lost his job to Brady, who had already proven himself at that point by winning a Super Bowl as the Patriots starter. The Patriots weren't handing the job to an inexperienced, unproven QB. PLUS, the Patriots couldn't simply release Bledsoe without taking a huge financial hit, so their hands were very much tied on that one. So that's definitely apples and oranges in terms of comparisons.
DeleteAs for McNabb, that one is much more relevant, I'll give you that. However, I still thinks it's apples and oranges. Again, the Eagles couldn't just release McNabb without taking a substantial financial hit. Not only that, the Eagles got a really nice haul in return for McNabb, which they flipped to draft QB Nick Foles (who helped them win a Super Bowl), and of course, DeMeco Ryans, who went on to win DROY. Also, alot of Eagles fans felt was moving well past his prime at that point. And even then, that was a very risky trade, and something we rarely ever see in the NFL (It's been 12 years since that trade).
The 49ers just spent 3 first round picks for Jimmy's replacement, AND they can release Jimmy and only suffer a dead cap hit of less than $2M, which isn't even money out of pocket.
In other words, there really hasn't ever been a fair comparison. This situation with Jimmy is unique, and the fact of the matter is, Jimmy can force the 49ers hands to be released at this point if he wants (which I suspect he is), and if he does that, the only recourse the 49ers have is to pony up $27M, and eeven if they can still trade him by the trade deadline, they will take a huge financial hit for a backup QB who everyone knows they spent a fortune in order to replace, so how does that look? And let's face it - holding onto to Jimmy, while trying to allow Trey to take the reins, and essentially allowing Jimmy to "compete" with Trey would not only be grossly unfair to Trey, but would also likely split the locker room, and cost the 49ers a fortune, so it's safe to say that's the worst case scenario.
DeleteSo tell me how the 49ers have any leverage here, whatsoever? Because NFL executives are ruthless, and they understand leverage, and how leverage works.
But, the 49ers are on the hook for that $7.5M if Jimmy can't pass a physical, and therefore can't sign on with another team, so it's not a difference of $7.5M, and $2M, unless you it's likely that Jimmy might just sit out the entire season? I don't think there is any chance of that, because there has to be a team out there willing to give Jimmy $10-$12M, and if there isn't, then why would anyone give the 49ers draft picks, AND pay Jimmy more than that? It makes no sense.
DeleteHmm, do you even listen to yourself? If you did, you just answered your own question. " AND they can release Jimmy and only suffer a dead cap hit of less than $2M, which isn't even money out of pocket ".
DeleteYea, I'd be surprised if Jimmy's salary for 2022 won't be part of a restructure as part of the trade agreement. Should be loaded with incentives tied to availability and performance giving him an opportunity to earn some of it back.
DeleteAgain, think about from Jimmy's perspective. Isn't it likely that Don Yee thinks Jimmy can get a better deal as a UFA, than if a team also has to give up draft picks for him? I would if I was Jimmy. Why would a team pay him more than they otherwise would if he was a FA, AND give up picks? That makes no sense. Don't you think Don Yee is aware of Jimmy's general value as a FA, and has a good idea of who would be interested in signing him upon his release?
DeleteIf Jimmy gets released, he gets to choose his team from the highest bidders. You don't think he'd rather do that than be traded, and be forced to renegotiate based on a trade?
DeleteTrust me, this was a calculated plan by Jimmy and his agent, Don Yee. This is why Jimmy delayed surgery for an entire month. He'd likely already be cleared physically by now of he chose surgery immediately after the season, instead of choosing to get surgery, basically behind the 49ers backs, a month later than necessary. Do you honestly that just happened by chance?
DeleteJimmy's salary will be renegotiated with the team that trades for him. He won't be released. He won't be on the team this year. There's a team lurking out there in the weeds. Maybe it's the Texans, maybe it's the Seahawks but there's a team out there that's going to push the panic button. Happens every year. Look at the Commanders. Look at the Colts.
DeleteThey knew that, by delaying surgery, and delaying when Jimmy would be healthy enough to showcase, would tie the 49ers hands, essentially forcing a release. They can't come out and say it, but don't think for a second that Don Yee doesn't understand how to properly do his job to get the best deal for his clients! The 49ers understand this is as well. This is why they were kind of taken of guard with the surgery. They even admitted they were taken off guard themselves. It doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to follow the bread crumbs with this entire situation. Jimmy wants his release, and he will get his release, before the final cutdowns.
DeleteMark this date on your calendar: August 30th.
Of course there is always a super long-shot chance that a starting QB get's hurt, but even that is contingent on when Jimmy is healthy enough to play, isn't it. That's why, if Jimmy really liked the idea of being traded, and not handpicking his next destination upon release, he would have gotten his surgery immediately following the NFC Championship loss.
DeleteNope, you never rush to surgery if there's a chance you can heal properly without it.
DeleteOK, that's fine. I completely dissagree with your take, and I think the evidence works against the opinion that Jimmy will be traded. But I suppose it is possible if another starter goes down to a season ending injury (although karma says I need to root against that).
DeleteIt's not worth debating any further though, because I don't know how much clearer I can paint the picture. If I am wrong, and I hope I am for the 49ers sake, and they can find a trade partner, I will gladly come on here and admit that I was wrong, but unless another starter gets hurt between now and 8/30, I just don't see a trade happening, and that's unfortunate, but what can they do, their hands are tied.
But I just don't see it happening right now, so for me, August 30th appears to be "hard deadline" for Jimmy's release, but I do think it's possible they could release him before then whether he passes a physical or not. I doubt they will, because it serves them to hold onto to Jimmy until then. But I also don't think anything hinges on the injury guarantee.
.
BTW, Don Yee hasn't given any kind of date that Jimmy is expected to healthy by, has he? All we know is that he's supposedly "on schedule", but we don't what that means. However we do know that he could suffer a "setback" any day, especially if they think that helps his chances of being released ASAP.
DeleteIt's in Jimmy's best interest to get on a team and learn the playbook ASAP.
DeleteDude, 49Lesions, you may not be going by your name anymore but you haven't changed one bit.
DeletePlease, one post per reply, you're spamming the board and its not warranted.
Also, Maiocco is not the straightest shooter...but I'm sure you also listen to KNBR. Maiocco has shown a propensity to be a Jimmy slanderer, its okay he can have his opinion but his takes over the last couple of years have been leaning troll.
But seriously, make one post per reply, flooding the board like this is one of the reasons you got yourself banned...for a month, even though you bet a year.
Going back to the question of how JG makes the most money - as a FA or through trade - the answer at this point is most definitely via trade. That's the avenue that gives him leverage as he has a $25M contract he needs to be negotiated down from. As a FA he has no bargaining chip other than hoping a bunch of teams trip over themselves for him.
DeleteI do want to get rid of Jimmy but the thought of him facing us behind the Seahawks offense line could be very detrimental to his health. I'd hate to have to engage in sadistic voyeurism twice a year.
DeleteJG will be traded, if he leaves. It makes the most sense for him $ related, it makes the most sense for the Niners ROI (Baker traded for a 4th or 5th, JG should get a 3rd).
DeleteCutting him is not happening, niners get nothing back. Heck, if they just kept him on the roster they'd get a 3rd round comp if he then signed elsewhere in 23.
I wouldn't be surprised if niners kept him into the season, Lance dealt with a few injuries last year and the reason Lance is here is because JG couldn't stay healthy, so it makes sense to keep a guy who can lead this team to the playoffs in case Lance gets injured (or doesn't look ready during TC/Preseason). And if they did they get a 3rd for him in 23 draft. Also, we all know injuries to QBs will usually happen in a preseason game or during the first few weeks, so keep him until absolutely necessary...
The cut talk needs to be cut, it's not happening at all.
Seahawks would have to pay a premium for an inter-division trade, so at least a 2nd rounder, but that's probably contingent on a second team's pursuing interest.
Delete*The Texans have entered the chat
DeleteScooter_McG, why does Jimmy need a "$25M bargaining chip"? With all due respect, that's just not logical. The only way Jimmy's current contract even comes in to play, from my experience following this stuff, is if more than 1 team wants him, as their starter this season. It's been my experience that NFL executives would rather not trade 3rd or 4th round picks for a QB who they could sign as a FA. Jimmy's been to 2 conference championships in the last 3 seasons, and a Super Bowl. Why in the world would he need a "bargaining chip" top find a team that wants him? If he's a viable NFL starting QB, the going rate for a VETERAN QB with his resume, is $30M a year,, ON THE LOW END. So if there is a need to bring Jimmy in as a starter for 2022, I would think the price tag starts at $25M, and goes UP from there, not down, as long as there is no additional draft compensation involved. And if there isn't a starting job for him in 2022, then the $25M is an absolute nonstarter.
DeleteJimmy basically has a no trade clause, because according to you guys, he has to agree to take a pay cut. Why wouldn't Jimmy just wait till the 49ers release him, or take the $27M if the Niners decide they refuse to cut him? In that case, Jimmy can take the $27M AND spend the rest of 2022 getting 100% healthy while preparing for FA? Do you think the market would be less for Jimmy if the Niners force him to take the $27M?
Like, I just don't understand why you guys think he's worth MORE to a team, in a trade, than he is a FA. That's just not logical. s on the free market. It's absolute the opposite! Simple logic suggest the less you have to give up in draft capitol to acquire him, the more you'd be willing to give him. That's the way the NFL works, not the opposite. I think you guys are 100% backwards on this, but like I said, if I haven't convinced you yet, we'll just have to wait and see how it plays out.
eMJay, FYI, a 3rd round comp pick (105ish) isn't worth anywhere near $27M.
DeleteNo trade clause ended months ago.
DeleteFred Warner (3rd Round), George Kittle (5th Round), Dre Greenlaw (5th) and Elijah Mitchell (6th) say otherwise.
DeleteReasons, any team trading for JG acquires his current contract. That's JG's negotiating point with any team that trades for him, simple as that. Either pay him $25M for a year or make him an offer that he is willing to take below that.
DeleteAs a FA he has no existing contract so has no leverage other than if a bidding war starts up. At this point, that seems unlikely.
As for being worth more to the team trading for him than if he was a FA, any team trading for him is inherently saying they see value in trading for him over waiting for him to be released.
DeleteThe optimum outcome for JG, money wise, is to have a team willing to trade for him. If no such team exists then yes, its either hope the 49ers will pay him for another year or take whatever he can get on the open market.
I said Jimmy essentially has a no trade clause, since a new deal REQUIRES him to renegotiate his final year of his contract, which essentially gives him trade veto power, unless a team is willing to take on his entire $27M, or the 49ers are willing to pick up the difference.
DeleteAs for the rest of this speculation, all I can do is agree to dissagree at this point. If I were a betting man, I certainly wouldn't bet on Jimmy being traded this late in the process, especially considering his current contract, and especially not for a 2nd or 3rd round pick. And also, a 3rd round comp pick is worth in the range of $14M, for whatever that is worth, and the distraction of holding onto Jimmy would lower any comp pick value the 49ers might get in return if he leaves as a FA in 2023 (that's for eMJay).
Thanks for a good, spirited discussion guys, and to be honest, I have jimmy G. fatigue at this point, and I am ready to give Trey Lance my undivided attention at this point anyways, and i can only hope Kyle can do the same!
And hey, if the 49ers do get something in return for Jimmy, the better for the franchise, and I will celebrate that, as long as this doesn't become a major distraction for Trey Lance, and the entire team this season. It has already opened Lance up to all kinds of ridicule, and ridiculous speculation, and that never helps the psyche of a young athlete. Anything that drags into training camp, or god forbid the preseason, would be employer malpractice, that's for sure. But boy, that sure would be a boon for the Grant Cohn's, football podcasters, and the rest of the NFL news media network. Yikes.
DeleteJust to be clear, I don't think JG will get traded. I think he will get released. On that I disagree with razor and eMJay.
DeleteI'm just outlining that the path that gets JG the most money at this point is almost certainly being traded. Which is why I don't believe he would be opposed to being traded instead of released should such an option materialise. And why I don't believe you are correct that he is agitating for a release over a trade - I think he would agitate for a release over staying.
A new deal does NOT REQUIRE any team to renegotiate his contract, thats actually not how contracts work per say. If a team extends him, just like with Deebo, the amount he makes this year stays as is, minus any sort of signing bonuses. It would be years 2 and beyond that would be changed. Look at Derek Carr for example, his contract this year a base salary of 17M, cap hit of 19M and Dead Cap of 25M. His extension pays him 121M for year 23-25, where his base goes to 32,41 & 41M , with cap hits 2M above each number for those years, but his dead cap drops to 5.5, 3.7 & 1.8. He also got 7M signing paid this year. They may say his contract is guaranteed for 65M, but 24M is just this years existing number and his 7.5M bonus. He then has 2023 fully guaranteed at 32M with just 7.5M of 2024 guaranteed. If you think Carr will see the rest of 2024 or any of that 41M 2025 amount, you're smoking crack as the dude has a cap hit of 43M in 24 with a 3.75 dead cap.
DeleteThis is what would happen to Jimmy, his 22 number won't change. Whoever trades for him will make room, will make his 2022 number guaranteed, extend him for 3 years for some huge number, but in reality he won't see a dime of years 2024 or 25.
If Carr is getting 58M guaranteed over 2 seasons (7.5M 3rd season), which is basically 28M a season, any team that trades for JG will pay his 24M this year and 24+M next year.
I'm not as savvy on the cap as others, but I feel that teams could somehow make Jimmys 2022 cap number come down by making it fully guaranteed. Either way, Jimmy is getting his money this year and whatever team trades for him will work out an extension to make that cap number fit better.
Yeah... no, that isn't how it works eMJay. Any new deal JG signs would replace his existing contract. It is up to JG and the team he signs with as to whether the new deal includes the same salary in 2022.
DeleteBut, you are correct that there is no requirement to renegotiate a new contract. The team acquiring him can choose to just pay him the $25M on his current contract (or whatever it is).
He signs an extension and his current deal stays.
DeleteThis is why niners dont need to make cap room to extend deebo, his 2022 number is basically what it is.
Jimmy will be extended but his 22 number will stay, just like carr.
That can be the case. It isn't how it has to work though.
DeleteTo be fair, I didn't say that a trade requires Jimmy to renegotiate his contract, you guys did. I agree that there likely isn't a team out there right now, who would be willing to take on a 1 year - $25M, fully guaranteed contract (as of 8/30), AND also give up valuable draft capital, for a QB who is coming off shoulder surgery on his THROWING shoulder, may not even be full go for training camp, and is scheduled to be a free agent after the season. Can we be certain that Jimmy's should can even take a tough tackle early in the season? And the fact of the matter is, the salary cap is a hurdle that teams use as leverage in all of these kinds of transactions, and trading for Jimmy G. would be no exception.
DeleteDo I think the 49ers might be able to get a day 3 pick in return for Jimmy, so long as he's willing to renegotiate his contract? Sure, but as I have said, I don't get the sense that Jimmy and his agent would feel that signing an extension at this point is a better option than either hitting the open QB market as a FA, or allowing his full $27M become fully guaranteed on 8/30, and there isn't anything I've heard that would convince me otherwise. I've convinced that this was part of the plan for Jimmy's camp all along.
And taking a $27M cap hit this season, just to collect a 3rd round comp pick in 2023, is not even close to being worth it, unless Jimmy's the starter, and that would trigger a nightmare scenario, almost certainly splitting the locker room, and sinking the 2023 season, and perhaps Lance's career, before it even starts!
But we'll find out soon enough, because the team is schedule to show up for training camp in less than 2 weeks. Woohoo!
CORRECTION: Jimmy's salary for this year is only $25.6M, however he will cost the 49ers $26.95M against the cap, if they keep Jimmy on the final year of his deal, without renegotiating his contract. That's $26.95M that could be either carried over to 2023, and/or used to sign a high level veteran or two before the trade deadline, like the Rams did with Von Miller - a trade that helped put them over the top last season.
DeleteYou basically said it:
Delete"I said Jimmy essentially has a no trade clause, since a new deal REQUIRES him to renegotiate his final year of his contract, which essentially gives him trade veto power"
I highly doubt Jimmy will be playing anywhere this year under his current deal.
DeleteTraded or released, it will be under a new deal.
Scooter, as expected Albert Breer is reporting that the 49ers welcome teams to talk to Jimmy's camp about renegotiation.
DeleteThat post was in response to Scooter_McG and Razereater saying that restructuring his contract would have to be a part of a trade. If that's true, which I do agree is very LIKELY, but NOT absolute, then Jimmy basically has a no trade clause, if he indeed needs to agree to a restructure as part of a trade, right? That much I do agree with. Think about this - Jimmy is due to become a FA after this season, so if that's the case, he's worth less on a trade market, because the acquiring team only has him under control for this season. I also said that his shoulder is an inherent risk coming off of surgery, whether he can pass a physical or not. That doesn't help his trade value either. $25.6M is simply too much money for Jimmy, in my opinion, considering he's coming off of injury, and he becomes a free agent after this season and can walk away from whoever trades for him. Therefore, a restructure, likely with an extension, almost certainly has to be part of the deal.
DeleteHaving said all of that again, I need to repeat that I don't think Jimmy, or his camp, feel like it's ibn his best interest to renegotiate his contract. I think they feel his best situation would be to garner his release, becoming a free agent who can then sign any deal he wants, without the signing team having to give up draft capital to get him.
DeleteYee knows what Jimmy's value is on the open market, and if Jimmy wants an opportunity to start and increase his market value for next year; it would again be in his best interest to renegotiate, as well as an incentive clause as a way to earn that money back.
DeleteYep - I imagine any contract negotiated as part of a trade would convert a chunk of his base salary to incentives
DeleteScooter_McG, are you sticking to your position that the 49ers should not take on any portion of what is remaining on his contract? By the way, I just now realized that you said that you don't think he will be traded. Sorry I missed that part earlier, my bad.
DeleteSteve Young just gave this quote to Matt Maiocco: "So I don’t know, short of cutting Jimmy, if there’s something that can get done.”
DeleteNow watch eMJay call Steve Young another Jimmy basher :)
And I just found this one by Joel Corry of CBS Sports: "Garoppolo is scheduled to make $25.6 million on a $26.95 million salary cap number this year. There won't be any takers at this point without Garoppolo taking or pay cut and/or the 49ers absorbing some of his salary to help facilitate a trade. Some NFL team executives are anticipating that Garoppolo will eventually be released. The 49ers would pick up $25.55 million of cap space by cutting him."
DeleteI'm expecting Jimmy to end up somewhere around $15 million per year with the team trading for him converting his base to a guaranteed signing bonus spread out over 3 years, along with incentives to make up the difference.
DeleteAnd this one yesterday, by Jose Luis Sanchez III of Sports Illustrated, which sounds identical to what I have been selling for the last week: "The Niners can hold onto Garoppolo for the majority of training camp and then cut him. If you're Garoppolo, it makes no sense to waste away for a month or so for a trade to materialize when you can demand a release to find a team on your own. Garoppolo becomes a much more attractive player to sign as a free agent -- not as a trade commodity. Requesting a release is the only way the 49ers will let him go without a trade partner."
DeleteYou could be right, Razoreater. For the record, I don't think you are entirely out in left field. But I remain convinced he will ask for, and be granted his release.
Delete"Scooter_McG, are you sticking to your position that the 49ers should not take on any portion of what is remaining on his contract?"
DeleteUnless taking on a portion of his contract gets them a high draft pick, there is insufficient value to the 49ers to do so.
"Garoppolo becomes a much more attractive player to sign as a free agent -- not as a trade commodity."
DeleteThis is absolutely true. He'll be both cheaper to sign and won't cost any assets in a trade. The only reason to trade for him is (a) to guarantee you get him and (b) if you believe the 49ers won't release him.
Thanks, Scooter_McG. We seem to be mostly in agreement. It's going to be an interesting storyline to watch. It will be especially interesting if Jimmy comes out and requests his release within the next couple weeks (publicly), because I don't get the sense that the Niners want to do him or his agent any favors at this point. I think they will tell him to get back to them on 8/29, unless they get back to him sooner. lol
DeleteI had an error in my last post - I meant "he'll be both cheaper to sign and won't cost any assets as a FA rather than in a trade".
DeleteOK, gotcha. So we kind of, sort of, maybe halfway agree? Something like that.
Delete7/14 - BLEACHER REPORT'S NFL Scouting Department picks the SAN FRANCISCO 49ERS to win the NFC West over the LA RAMS:
Deletehttps://bleacherreport.com/articles/10041746-br-nfl-expert-picks-for-2022-division-winners
49Lesions...Remind us the last front office Steve has ever worked in?
Delete49Lesions? What does this even mean?
DeleteAs for spamming, I'll work on that. In my defense, I am not trying to spam. Most blogs allow individuals to post responses to individual posts. For some reason this blog doesn't really work that way. Often times I have been posting things hours apart if you read the time stamp, but they appear like they are posted one right after the other.
Sorry about that. Like I said, I'll work on that. I do appreciate the good-spirited content, as you guys all seem knowledgeable and well informed.
And especially this person who goes by Scooter_McG. I spent some time over the last week going back over the content that he has posted going back a long ways, and my goodness, Scooter_McG's content could easily be in high demand, locked behind a pay wall. No question about that. And this guy Razoreater is straight to the point, with a little whimsy twist. Good stuff!
Delete
ReplyDeleteBosa faced double-teams on nearly 30% of his snaps in 2021 & still posted 15.5 sacks & a 23.0% pass rush win rate, which was 8th in the NFL. Bosa finished the year at 26% double-teams which was tops among this list.
WOW! Hopefully with the new pass rushing additions, Bosa can operate on a more level playing field. And if it does, it's hard to even fathom Bosa's next level!
DeleteAnother wr bust for BB as he trades Harry to the Bears. He can't draft a wr to save his life!
ReplyDeleteNot many teams can. Niners went how many seasons between TO and Deebo, basically? I mean you had some OK guys in there like Lloyd, Battle, Wilson, Crabtree...but a legit #1 took them better part of 15 years.
DeleteHe had Deebo right there in front of him and chose Harry.🤦♂️
DeleteTo be fair, it is a difficult position to evaluate.
DeleteOf course the 49ers welcome other teams talking to Jimmy Garoppolo to renegotiate contract. Does that even need saying? If they trade him, of course all the 49ers care about is what they get in return for Jimmy. Why would they care if he restructures or not?
ReplyDeleteThis is just a useless Albert Breer quote, trying to tell us all something we already knew!
The only reason this Albert Breer might mean something to the 49ers is if part of the negotiations is the 49ers needing to eat a portion of Jimmy's 2022 salary, which I've also said seems very likely if they want to get anything of reasonable value in return for him.
DeleteA little more food for thought: Kyle's 49ers are 12-27 without Deebo and Bosa. Is it possible that Jimmy's W-L record, with exception of Jimmy's 5 starts in 2017, before teams had a book on him, actually has a lot more to do with the additions of Deebo Samuel - the top offensive weapon in the NFC, and Nick Bosa - perhaps the most disruptive, relentless DE in the NFC, than QB Jimmy G? Because Jimmy's numbers, especially in the postseason, don't line up with his overall record. They just don't.
DeleteDude, are you even trying not to spam?
DeleteGeorge writing. Dr. Freud might opine that Reasons has a narcisistic, hyper compulsive personality whose self-image rises and falls with the success of the San Francisco 49ers. It would be great if he tied himself to a team in some dumb sport like kurling or badminton, anything that would compel him away from here.
ReplyDeleteGood call there George. Though slightly off in your analysis IMO. *Success* of the San Francisco 49ers has very little to do with Reasons self-image. It rises when he feels the team has met it's obligation to his prognostications.
DeleteCase in point, last season no one here was as relentlessly manic in their criticism of everything the team did, from Shannies approach to play calling to Treys development, to JG's play on down. Then came the play-off push and success in the early rounds that galvanized and electrified the entire fan base, Reasons was nowhere to be found. After the NFCC loss here he was back, like stink on sh*t.
It's easy to predict disaster for a team. It's the cowards way out, ultimately you have 1 in 32 odds being correct.
I know plenty of people like Lesions, they actually enjoy the team more when the team is bad, like 2004 bad. They enjoy the complaining and the critiquing. Maybe its a way for they to make themselves feel better about theirselfs (still with me?, good), but it feels as if when the team is bad they can criticize those who have accomplished more than they ever have, it in an odd way lifts them up by tearing down those above them, taking joy in their failures, some very freudenschadeian(sp?) level sh!t.
DeleteInstead of enjoying the success, they have to find all the faults. Its not good enough the team won 24 - 17...no, they should have won 35 - 3. Jimmy should have been 28 for 30 for 450 yards, 4 TDs, no Ints (not even a chance of an int)...as well, every WR should have had 150 yards and the RBs should have had 200 yards..MATH BE DAMNED!
Its the same mindset as those people who say "look how many passes Jimmy had vs the Vikings...", ignoring the fact that the run game was destroying them so why would you need or want to pass? Its as if these people got their understanding and vision of what "football" is from someone playing Madden on the easiest difficulty.
I couldn't believe the "fans" last year, pre-Cowboys game, who were calling in to the various shows saying they'd rather not be in the playoffs if they don't win the SB. The hubris of these jabronis, the niners had made the playoffs 6 times since 1999 (7 now)...thats 6 times in 23 seasons. Like the nerve to not even want to make it if they didn't go all the way. These "fans" still thinking its the Walsh' Super Bowl or Bust Niners, ignorning that you can't win a SB without being in the playoffs and as good as that 13 season run was, 5 SBs, they missed the playoffs twice, and missed the SB 6 times, so would these "fans" have rather the 49ers only made the playoffs 5 times in that 13 year span or 11 times?
If the teams winning, thats what should matter. Complaining that Trey wasn't playing and that hurt his development...in spite of the team going to the NFC Championship is just stupid.
I don't know about him, but I feel that WE enjoy winning and winning now...not some hypothetical winning "next year".
And don't even get him started on his Kaep manifesto (of course I can already see his reply..."well since you brought up Kaep, blah blah blah blah"
I know us true 49er Faithful always appreciate the 49ers winning. Unfortunately we had to suffer another heartbreaking loss last season. Our team finished a very disappointing 3rd in their division, in large part to very spotty, underwhelming play from their QB, and that, along with yet another poor postseason performance from their QB, cost them another golden opportunity to win a Super Bowl. The rule of thumb, according to most football junkies, is: "If you have the 4th best QB in your own division, how can you possibly expect to win a Super Bowl? So true!
DeleteWhat's really unfortunate about last season, in the minds of a large portion of the fanbase, is the 49ers had the most explosive offensive weapon in the NFL, and perhaps the most talented all-around team - outside of their starting QB, and they still came up short, as many predicted.
As for Garoppolo now, what was the quote from the Buccaneers coach, in response to the rumors of him being traded to the Bucs, according to Rick Stroud of the Tampa Bay Times? Oh yah, here's the quote: “Um. Not a chance, fellas,” tweeted Stroud on Friday night. “As one Bucs coach told me, “If Garoppolo could throw a deep ball, he would’ve won two Super Bowls already.”
Ouch! Thankfully, I would be finally willing to bet that the 49ers finally no longer have the worst QB in their division, and so everything no longer has to go exactly right for them, like it did in 2019, in order for them to secure anything better than a wildcard. Kyle Shanahan finally has a real shot to finish the deal now, so these are very exciting times ahead for the us Faithful, just so long as the team gets rid of the distraction, and doesn't waste $25M this season on a backup QB!
eMJay, some people just aren't happy unless they are unhappy.
DeleteWell said Anonymous. My dad and I can hardly wait for Trey-ning camp!
DeleteI am a Niners fan, but actually a Buccaneers fan first. I grew up in northern California, just southwest of Rocklin, and so my father, who is a huge Niners fan, used to bring me to Sierra College for their annual training camp. Now I live just outside of Jacksonville FL, and take care of my dad who is still a diehard Niners fan, and I can tell you our two worst nightmares are the Niners keeping Jimmy for another season, or being forced to watch him dink and dunk and throw interceptions to opposing inside linebackers, never even attempting a deep pass to stretch defenses.
George here. This is a response to ribico:
ReplyDelete"Case in point, last season no one here was as relentlessly manic in their criticism of everything the team did, from Shannies approach to play calling to Treys development, to JG's play on down."
Dr. Freud: True, mein herr, but my interpretation is his self-image was "in the shxtter," as I think you Americans say. So, not being Shanny's puppet master, his response was to attempt to control Shanny through this blog. Irrational, ja, but we are not dealing with rationality here.
"Then came the play-off push and success in the early rounds that galvanized and electrified the entire fan base, Reasons was nowhere to be found."
Freud: You see, mein herr, the subject's self-image was going "through the roof." He was on a "high," one might say. So no pull strings on this guy Shanny.
"After the NFCC loss here he was back, like stink on sh*t."
Sigmund: And this confirms my analysis!