The offense looked good against the Raiders. It looked good against the Lions. Then the Eagles punched the 49ers offense in the mouth, and they haven't been the same since. Shanny looks tired and sounds uninspired. They got one guy he trusts at wide receiver, Samuel and one guy he trusts at running back, Mitchell.
The players are a reflection of the head coach and that's why they've been playing uninspired. Where can Shanny get his inspiration and inject it into this offense? Only one place. The quarterback position and Trey Lance.
Now, I'm not talking the kind of unprepared kamikaze game plan Shanny had the last time Lance started a football game. I'm talking a real game plan that accentuates his strengths other than just his running ability. Roll him out and take some shots downfield. Get Aiyuk running free and let Lance uncork it. Get these defenses to back off and open up some running lanes.
I wasn't onboard with going to the rookie quarterback. I fully backed the redshirt year philosophy, but we still have a chance if they can snap this offense out of its melancholy. Trey Lance is the only thing in house that has a shot of doing what Jimmy G did in 2017, if Shanny gives him a real playbook instead of the one from North Dakota State.
Great post!
ReplyDeleteI think the NDSU offense was more real(playaction,under center) than the offensive plan against the Cards or the current Jimmy G defensive offense(1 read 1 staring down) that only involves Deebo
Thanks, Robber. Yep, Jimmy isn't playing good football right now.
DeleteRazor
Delete"Jimmy isn't playing good football right now."
I agree, but can't blame it all on JG. With a few exceptions, the 9ers are not playing good football
that's resulted in their 2W-4L season. And from what they've shown on the field, no reason to believe they
will turn it around.
believe KS or JG can turn it around.
** Or believe KS or JG**
DeleteJimmy missed wide open receiver and was throwing into triple coverage.
DeleteJimmy missed a lot of reads in this one. Lots of opportunities went begging.
DeleteAs much as I tend to agree that Shanahan is in something of a play calling funk, when you watch the film it is clear he is still scheming up lots of opportunities for this team. The players just refuse to take them.
Razor
Delete"Jimmy missed wide open receiver and was throwing into triple coverage."
Thats true, he's guilty as charged! but like I said, it can't all be blamed on him. There were also dropped passes, missed interception opportunities, missed blocks, some fumbles, too many penalties to remember them all, Pass interference calls, a missed extra point, suspect plays calls by KS. And yes, a pair of JG interceptions decided the game in the end.
My problem with this is that even if by playing Lance is able to quickly progress, I would expect Lance to take at least a few weeks before he is really operating efficiently. And those few weeks are now vital games to win if the team wants any hope of making the playoffs. For mine going to Lance now is basically the same as punting on the season.
ReplyDeleteThe time to get Lance ready for leading the team this season was training camp. They chose to stick with JG, and now they are kind of stuck with that decision.
Shanny finds himself between a rock and a hard place and he has no one to thank but himself.
DeleteExactly. This is brought on by themselves.
DeleteNot sure if you recall, but when we were all talking about how the team needed to move on from JG and draft a QB last year/ early this year, I suggested this team also needed to take its lumps and accept going through a mini-rebuild. Shed some of the large, non-building block contracts (in particular JG). Because to me this team was going to struggle to be as good as the 2019 team no matter what it did. Better to reset their salary cap a bit, bring in their future franchise QB, put a decent roster around him without mortgaging the future salary cap, and then make a strong push at a 2022 playoff run.
To me that especially became the case once they did decide to draft a QB.
Now admittedly they ended up building a better roster than I actually thought they could achieve given their salary cap constraints. But it was at the expense of some future cap space. And even so, as we are now seeing, it is very difficult to recapture the form of a previous year, which had a better overall squad. Doubly difficult when navigating the significant change in locker room dynamics as a result of the QB leading the 2019 squad going from your undisputed franchise QB that season, to now being your undisputed bridge.
Without first round picks the next two years, and with a large chunk of the salary cap already dedicated for next season, and with Lance not getting much playing time this season to take some lumps and learn from his mistakes, it makes me think 2022 might be a bit of a struggle as well.
Oh yea, I remember. The sooner Lance becomes that All Pro quarterback, the sooner we win consistently year in and year out. It's really that simple. It's too hard to win with a great defense and a system quarterback, and it's certainly impossible to sustain success over the long term that way. Lance as the franchise was always about the bigger picture, so you could be right about 2022.
DeleteI dont believe if you would start Trey that you than punt the season cuz hé gives a extra dimension to the offense but Shanny needs to use his smarts to give him a good offensive plan and not a plan like VS the Cards.
ReplyDeleteSome AC DC and not Weird Al Yankovich.
Lance will undoubtedly have rookie struggles. All rookie QBs do. Expecting a Lance led team to go 8-3 after just one start under his belt is an extremely tall order.
DeleteScooter
DeleteAs usual, you make a valid argument, but I'd ask you this question. What evidence can you offer that JG can produce a winning season, let alone make the playoffs?
Nothing I've seen the last 4 games suggests JG offers that prospect. I also find KS game plan and his play calling suspect.
Absolutely none. In fact as I outlined in the previous thread I don't see that happening either at this point.
DeleteBut... you can't punt on the season at a 2-4 record. It is way too early to do that. In fact, doing so would be a fireable offense.
And as much as I highly doubt JG can lead them to the playoffs from here, I still think you have to ride it out on the hope the team can recapture some of its 2019 magic. End of the day, JG has led them on big winning streaks before.
And to be fair, starting Lance would not mean Shanahan is punting on the season per se. I just think it is unfair to expect a rookie QB to go 8-3 after just one start, especially given how little college experience he had and after not playing last season.
DeleteScooter
DeleteAs much as I'd like to see Lance start, I have to agree with you. What I believe KS should have done in game one. He should have given Lance 7-8 reps that played to his strength. Then added plays ever game that he, his receiver and O-line demonstrated they could run successfully in practice.
To be clear, I'm not of the opinion that would have made Lance a QB fully capable of start an NFL game, but he'd be more capable of starting, and winning, than he is now. If KS refuses to give lance sufficient reps in the remaining 11 games to help get him prepared for the 2022 season, I have serious reservations that 2022 pre season will be adequate time to prepare him to be the 9er starting QB in 2022 and will likely end up being another losing season.
BTW: The language I heard from other 9er season ticket
holders, during 4th quarter of the Colts game, would
embarrase a drunken sailor!
Shanahan said yesterday that starting Lance and other rookies would be punting the season. Not in those exact words but the meaning was clear.
DeleteThis place is for talking about the team, venting, ideas etc and that's great, but sometimes I think we get pretty full of ourselves with what we say about the people actually employed to do this job. Case in point is the idea that Shanahan purposely gave Lance a crappy game plan against AZ. Does it occur to anyone that maybe that was all Lance could handle at this point? That the reason he isn't playing much is because he is so far from being ready to handle the offense? How far do you guys think he can go with a rudimentary understanding of this system and inconsistent accuracy? His ability to run isn't going to overcome his inability to win from the pocket.
Just look at the team we are playing this week as an example. Fields started two years for one of the best College football programs in the country, played on the big stage, has a pretty good running game and defense behind him and he is completely lost out there. Zach Wilson has been terrible, Lawrence has been more bad than good. The only guy who has had any success is the guy none of you wanted the Niners to draft and it's because they have an extremely conservative offense that is just dinking and dunking which is something else the fans around here seem to hate because they criticize Garoppolo for not throwing down the field more than he does.
Just be careful what you wish for because if Lance struggles and takes the kind of beating Fields is, it will do more harm than good along with the fact we will be punting on the season to let him make mistakes for the rest of the year.
Notanexpert
Delete"Does it occur to anyone that maybe that was all Lance could handle at this point? That the reason he isn't playing much is because he is so far from being ready to handle the offense?
Oh yea, that possibility occurred to me...Up until the
Arizona game. Did Lance look like he was an NFL starting QB NO, he obviously needs more coaching and reps to improve. But don't try telling me he's far from being ready to handle the offense, because the
Arizona game proved that's not the case.
-Did Lance look like he was an NFL starting QB NO, he obviously needs more coaching and reps to improve-
DeleteYou just stated the exact reason he's not playing. Shanahan came into this season believing they could take another run at a SB based on getting a lot of players back on short deals in FA and by keeping Garoppolo for another year. That was the plan. The idea is to let Lance absorb a year in an NFL system while the vet plays.
- But don't try telling me he's far from being ready to handle the offense, because the
Arizona game proved that's not the case.-
I have no idea what you were watching if you truly believe this. He completed barely 50% of his throws, drifted in the pocket which forced his OL to grab DL to keep him from getting creamed and took some hellacious hits that he could have avoided by getting down. He's 21 years old and has played one season of FCS football in the past 3 years. He's not ready to be the starter of a team trying to make the playoffs. If the Niners lose this week that may be the tipping point and you could get your wish as a playoff spot is not likely at that point, but as I mentioned be careful what you wish for because it could be a few weeks of watching the kid throw picks, take punishment and look really bad before hopefully turning the corner.
Notanexpert
Delete"You just stated the exact reason he's not playing."
* Wrong! I just stated the reason why Lance needs MORE playing time, to become a successful QB in 2022.
" Shanahan came into this season believing they could take another run at a SB"
* And how has that worked out? How many SB will the 9ers win with a losing record? And who's going to take the 9ers to the SB with JG on IR? A rookie QB that's not ready to play, because KS hasn't prepared him to play in the NFL? That's giving the team the best chance to win, both in 2021 and 2022?
Also, how has "getting a lot of players back on short deals in FA" worked out? Not too good when they'll spend most of the season on IR! It also raises the question, Should the 9er have drafted a CB in the 2nd round rather than O-lineman Banks, who's also on IR and can't beat out RG Brunskill. How's that worked out for KS?
"If the Niners lose this week that may be the tipping point"
* After losing the last four games, do you have any examples showing why the 9ers won't lose to the Bears this week and to both Arizona and the Rams the following two weeks?
BTW: The Arizona game plan KS prepared left people believing it did NOT put Lance in a position to succeed. It did however, show the offense was out of synch and needs more time playing with Lance, to succeed.
Geep,
DeleteYou aren't getting it and are focused on hindsight analogies. This is not about how things look now, it's about the mindset of the team going in. How it looks to you now is irrelevant. They clearly were trying to make a run this year before moving on to the next phase of the team after the season.
You seem to feel that the only way Lance can get better is to play and that simply isn't true. Many rookie QB's have sat for their first year and played well when they got their turn. Just because they don't play in the games doesn't mean they are doing nothing to prepare for when they will be needed. It's actually worse in my opinion to throw a young QB out there when he isn't ready and that was evident in the performance against the Cardinals. The game plan was what Lance could handle because he can't run the offense as a whole yet. The plan was to give him a Redshirt season because he was extremely raw and hadn't played a lot of football and that continues to be the plan until the season is lost in the minds of the Coaches.
-After losing the last four games, do you have any examples showing why the 9ers won't lose to the Bears this week and to both Arizona and the Rams the following two weeks?-
Yes I do. They lost to AZ on the road by 7 while starting a QB who wasn't ready to play, so why wouldn't they have a chance to beat them at home with some starters back from injury? They've owned the Rams going back 3 years. The Rams are obviously better with Stafford but I watched the Rams get taken to final minutes by the Lions last week so they are hardly insurmountable. This is a league of parity and any team can beat another on a given Sunday. They should beat Chicago this week but who knows? What I do know is every one of their losses were close games that they had a chance to win and that gives them a chance to make a run if they can get some players back and play more consistently.
Razor
ReplyDeleteABSO-FING-LUTELY....ALL ABOARD THE LANCE TRAIN...
* Oh, and nice write up too...lol
Thank you, Geep. I don't expect him to start this week, but if he's healthy; get him fully prepared for the Cardinals.
DeleteRazor
DeleteI agree. I've said KS needed to start Lance out game one, with 7-8 plays designed to his strength and as he shows progress, add 2-4 more plays every game.
The thing is yes there is time to get the ship turned around, but whose gonna do it? So far Shanny has had no answers. The buttons he's been pushing are no longer working. Jimmy needs to prove he gives the team the best chance to win because up to this point he's regressed.
ReplyDeleteIn the first 3 and a half games he started, they were in position to win all of them. He didn't play well on Sunday night, but he was playing well enough to win every game he played in before that. If he falls on his face from here on out and they are losing then he should be replaced no question, but that isn't the case yet.
DeleteRazor
ReplyDelete"The thing is yes there is time to get the ship turned around. but whose gonna do it?"
As a 9er fan I too want to see the ship turned around, but
based on what the offense has shown the last for games, I find it difficult to believe JG and the offense, are still capable of doing it. And that including KS.
IMO, Lance offers the only hope of a winning season, but as I said, I'm not sure that KS can, or will, produce a game plane to make it happen. Maybe it's true he's too damn stubborn to admit he's wrong, but it's obvious it's NOT WORKING!
Well he didn't do it in training camp and because he didn't prepare him he got him hurt!
DeleteWho are the leaders on the Niners? Trent Williams? Warner? Bosa? Shanny? Do they really have one?
ReplyDeleteThis is something I brought up the other day - can't recall if it was here or on Jack's blog.
DeleteThe 49ers have lost three of their five captains from the 2019 season - Staley, DeFo and Sherman - the past two years. Who has replaced them? Well, they've extended the number of captains to 7, with Warner, Williams, Armstead, Ward and Mostert added to Kittle and JG.
Who out of those guys is a vocal and/ or inspirational leader that players really lean on for guidance? I think only Warner is. The others aren't - they are just pretty good professionals.
When your HC is struggling to instil discipline you really need the leadership group to hold the players accountable. I just don't think they have the leadership group to do that.
It's too bad because right now they need that leadership, someone needs to step up and just take it. Ignite some fire.
DeleteScooter
Delete"The 49ers have lost three of their five captains from the 2019 season - Staley, DeFo and Sherman - the past two years. Who has replaced them?
YOU MAKE A GREAT POINT SCOOTER! While there are several star players, none of them are an "ALPA DOG" who will call out players that make mistakes and hold
them accountable.
Scooter
DeleteSomething else to consider. The 49ers have also lost 10 coaches from the team. The two most notable to leave were defensive coordinator Robert Saleh and Kyle Shanahan's right hand man Mike LaFleur.
When you lose 10 coaches from one team, it's going to have a negative affect.
Sure. But I thought the point of having Shanahan as HC was so that when they lost coaches they would still have continuity on offense.
DeleteThe defense hasn't been anywhere near as big of a problem as the offense. But they have had more upheaval than the offense from a coaching perspective.
Shouldn't have said "the point", as if it is the only point. But it was one of the reasons given for wanting an offense-based HC.
Delete...
ReplyDelete
ReplyDelete"Well, he's just not good enough," Baldinger said. "He's just not good enough. He's not accurate enough. There's only five [quarterbacks]—I don't think there's 10 of them in this league—where you can just count on them every single week. There's just not that many. And so, you're asking Jimmy to be stick accurate, almost every throw, and especially on third down to stay on the field. And he's just not that guy right now."
HOW IS THIS 49ER FANS, FOR A SHOT OF INSPIRATION?
ReplyDeleteShanahan's record with the 49ers is NOW WORSE than Mike Singletary during his infamous tenure with the team!
LET THAT SINK IN AS AN EXPLANATION FOR THE 2W-4L SEASON!
AND NOW THERE'S THIS:
ReplyDelete"Joe Staley believes Trey Lance needs to be 49ers' starting QB."
Joe Staley believes Trey Lance needs to be 49ers' starting QB
Staley thinks it's time Lance becomes 49ers' starting QB originally appeared on NBC Sports Bay area
The 49ers' plan coming into the year was simple, but had the potential to devolve into chaos if things didn't go according to plan. Well, at 2-4 and mired in a four-game losing streak, Kyle Shanahan has to decide if he thinks Jimmy Garoppolo can right the ship and steer the 49ers to the playoffs, or if now is the time for the Trey Lance era to begin.
Former 49ers offensive lineman and current NBC Sports Bay Area analyst Joe Staley believes the situation has changed in San Francisco, and now might be the time to ride with the rookie.
At first blush, I would start Lance. But then again, Trey is not ready at this point. Lance would face the risk of getting injured and actually delaying his development.
ReplyDeleteStarting Trey would also send a signal that Shanahan is all but given up on this season.
And to make matters worse, if Lance were to receive a major injury there's no immediate help coming from the draft in the next couple of seasons after giving up high draft capitol.
I know that this is probably going to whip up some old burning ambers, but I wonder if the 49ers fortunes would be different if they had drafted Mac Jones.
The talk on here leading up to the draft was a little divided with the Trey vs Mac possibilities.
Mac was NFL ready, but had likely reached his ceiling. While Lance was raw, but had a much higher ceiling. Can't do nothing about that now, but still wonder how Jones would have done as a 49er.
In any case, Shanahan will continue to start Garoppolo until he completely collapses/injured or when he feels Trey can take the field. And I hope that Shanahan is not forced to make a QB change until either of those scenario's takes place. The last thing we need is a repeat of Papa Shanahan' handling of RGIII.
Why didn't Shanny have him ready knowing Jimmy's history suggests he won't last more than 8 games?
DeleteRazor
DeleteThere you go using that logic stuff again...lol
Why didn't KS have Trey ready? Because his ego is involved and he can't, or won't, admit he's wrong?
That's one assumption. The other side of the coin might be the developmental curve was such that he determined it was not possible in one year.
DeleteRazor
DeleteIf, as you say, KS might have believed the Lance's "developmental curve was such that he determined it was not possible in one year." If we accept that as true, KS had already accepted the fact that 2022 would be another losing season, Unless he also intended to keep JG and his salary for the 2022 season? It's also an indictment of his insistence that "he'd start the QB that gave the team the best chance of winning."
I think it's part of it, Geep because every pundit were pretty much in agreement that Lance was not ready to start right away.
DeleteIf Kyle had gone all in on Trey Lance from the beginning, including in-between OTA's and training camp, And simplified his system for Trey, just as he did for RG3, the Niners might still be 2-4, but Trey would be ramping up his play and the team could start building momentum towards a possible playoff birth.
DeleteInstead, Kyle wasn't man enough to do it, and even the 49ers are still 2-4, not only has Garoppolo lost all confidence as well as any potential trade value, and Trey Lance's development has been an afterthought up until now, and completely neglected to the point where some of it is going to carry over into 2022, so any way you slice it, Kyle screwed this season up beyond repair, and 2022 is looking a little shaky at this stage!
Man enough. C'mon man! Give me a break. More like you can't go all in on a kid that wasn't ready and wasn't going to be ready until 2022 at the earliest.
DeleteMatt Maiocco wrote on NBC Sports Bayarea, that Tom Brady told Wes Welker he wanted to end his career with the 49ers.
ReplyDeleteThe 9ers held internal discussions shortly after their Super Bowl loss in February of 2020, to consider signing Tom Brady to replace Jimmy Garoppolo. That much we know.
Seth Wickersham, Senior writer and investigator for ESPN, reported the 9er FO turned down an offer of a 2nd Rd draft pick from the Patriots, for JG. The 9er FO told the Patriots they wanted a 1st Rd pick for JG and the Patriots turned them down.... And the rest is history.
To say the prospect of trading JG for a 1st Rd draft pick was at best. FOOLS GOLD. And at this point, a 3Rd, 4th, or even a 5th Rd draft pick is unlikely.
So knowing what we know now, the question that needs to be asked and answered is...Is this the reason why KS insists on
starting JG, because he foolishly believed some team would be desperate enough to make the 9ers a 1st Rd offer for JG, that they could't turn down?
Turning down such an offer was foolish. If Pats were offering a 2nd, chances are they could have been induced to include another pick too, maybe the year after. Not as good as a first, but helps mitigate the loss of your firsts in the next two drafts.
DeleteAnd they shouldn't have waited until the draft to do it. The Pats are known to have been interested well before then.
BB hates 5th round picks. We're golden in that round. Throw in a 5th and call it a day.
DeleteI've read the Pats were willing to go as high as a first round pick prior to the 49ers trading up to 3rd overall. Once the 49ers did that they didn't want to go that high as they believed the 49ers no longer had the leverage to ask for it.
DeleteMaybe the report is rubbish and that was never the case. But if it was there had to be a middle ground between a 2nd and 1st they could agree to.
I should also say that 'foolish' was probably too strong a word. But imo it was a mistake to be so stubborn about trading JG.
Scooter, Shanny said it was a false report.
DeleteYeah... Shanny doesn't often blatantly lie, but he isn't immune to bending the truth. Wickersham seems pretty convinced in his report. I suspect this may be more a case that no "official" trade offer was made, so Shanahan is right to say no trade offer was received, but inquiries were made and potential trade compensation discussed.
DeleteActually, reading the excerpt from Wickersham that is exactly what he claims happened.
DeleteSo when he was asked if there was truth that they were offered a 2nd rounder, Shanahan is correct in saying they were not. But that also isn't what Wickersham said. The person asking Shanahan the question asked it incorrectly.
This really isn't new information. A similar rumor that Belichick wanted to trade for Garoppolo was going around months ago. I don't think the 49ers were interested in trading Garoppolo based on everything that has happened, but if they got a first then maybe they'd change their mind. The Pats didn't go that far and nothing came of it. That's my theory anyway because if the Niners had traded Garoppolo they were going to go into a rebuild/retool this season. Rightly or wrongly they seem to have believed they had a shot to take a run this year before big changes next year. Everything they've done from keeping Garoppolo to signing a bunch of one and two year deals and pushing money into later years seems to have focused on this season. That's why I don't see them throwing the rookies including Lance, in there until they feel the season is lost.
DeleteIan Rapoport is reporting that the story is false.
Delete"Why didn't Shanny have him ready knowing Jimmy's history suggests he won't last more than 8 games?"
ReplyDeleteThat's a question we'd all like to know. But, IMHO, that is exactly why I'm against starting Lance. He's not ready.
Rushing Trey to start simply because the talking heads say so is a recipe for disaster.
Starting Lance at this point 6 games in, was never Shanahan' plan. And based on his start two weeks ago is certainly proof that Trey should not be installed as the starter.
At least get him the 6 plays a game as you originally planned, and maybe incrementally raise it to as many as 12 in late November.
DeleteThere was no way Lance was going to be ready after one TC. Once the season starts it's about getting the starters ready to play so he wasn't going to get reps at that point. If he's healthy he'll probably start to get a few plays again.
DeleteLance is not suppose to play this season other then injury replacement. Lance isn't ready, the team isn't ready for Lance, and KS isn't ready for Lance.
DeleteUC
DeleteIf lance wasn't supposed to play this season, other than pre season, when & how was he going to get enough
experience to be ready to be the starting QB in 2022?
Remember, he played at NDSU (an FCS school), and he only played 19 games in his college career. Two games in 2018, sixteen games in 2019 and one game in 2020.
BTW: Please, don't tell me playing three 2022 pre season games would prepare him to start in the NFL.
2022.
Under, the plan going into the season was to use him in favorable in game situations as they presented themselves around 6 plays a game. The thought was that because he hadn't played football in a year that it would compensate for some of that.
DeleteGeep and Razor
DeleteLance is getting lots of reps in practice and he needs lots of practice. So many talented QB's are lost in the NFL due to them not being ready to play coming out of college and forced to play. Back in the day rookie QBs never played for at least a year and longer. Today, the game is way more complex and the rookies are far more raw coming out of college. Lance getting Reps during a game is like having 2 QB's and when you have two QB's you have none. Lance should of either started the season or sits till next year. This crap of using two QB's just does not work and never has. I am not against Lance in fact I want him to succeed but I want him to have a better chance then the likes of Harrington and other rookies. The Chiefs in modern football have illustrated the fact of keeping a QB on ice for a year still works...
"Lance is getting lots of reps in practice".
DeleteProblem is, he isn't getting lots of reps in practice. The starter gets the vast majority of reps in practice during the regular season.
There really isn't any proven correlation for 1st round QBs between starting as a rookie vs sitting as a rookie and long term success. Yes, there have been instances where young QBs have been ruined by starting too soon. But there is also lots of QBs that have been thrown in the deep end and it helped them learn.
In general, my thoughts are that so long as (a) the QB isn't out of their depth and (b) the QB has a thick skin/ level head/ maturity, then getting them in there can be helpful to their development. I'm not sure at this point where Lance sits with regards to (a).
Scooter
DeleteHe doesn't get first team reps, he still gets reps. He just doesn't stand around and watch and if he does then that's something wrong with the system.
-There really isn't any proven correlation for 1st round QBs between starting as a rookie vs sitting as a rookie and long term success. Yes, there have been instances where young QBs have been ruined by starting too soon. But there is also lots of QBs that have been thrown in the deep end and it helped them learn.-
DeleteTrue story. There isn't one proven way for everybody and I think it probably depends on the experience of the player and how good the team is that they go to that indicates what the plan should be in developing them. Herbert took the league by storm last year so now the belief by many is all young QB's should be thrown in there, but that neglects some key details that differentiate Herbert from other QB's. He started for 4 years in Oregon so he had a ton of experience. He also went to a playoff caliber team so he had a lot of support around him. As we've seen so far this year, if a young QB goes to a bad team he's going to struggle and if you don't have much experience you may be doing more harm than good by playing them. Justin Fields and Zach Wilson had two full seasons as starters and both have struggled big time. Why would anyone think a QB who has one season at the FCS level is ready to play?
Under, its pretty well documented how few reps there are during the week in total, let alone for the backup. As a result the starter has to take the vast majority. The backup gets very few.
DeleteDeveloping a rookie backup QB during the season is almost entirely based on classroom activity and watching from the sudelines.
For Lance he is also getting some "reps" as the scout team QB, but it is a poor substitute for learning how to run the 49ers offense.
NAE, just because a rookie QB is struggling, it doesn't mean the experience is doing more harm than good. For mine it comes more down to whether the QB looks overwhelmed mentally, and whether they are letting the struggles and mistakes get in their head and making them timid. If either of those things are happening, get them out of there and let them sit.
As Sam Darnold once put it, Scooter, I'm seeing ghosts out there!
Delete-NAE, just because a rookie QB is struggling, it doesn't mean the experience is doing more harm than good. For mine it comes more down to whether the QB looks overwhelmed mentally, and whether they are letting the struggles and mistakes get in their head and making them timid. If either of those things are happening, get them out of there and let them sit.-
DeleteI didn't say it did and I agree with your point. I was just pointing out that there are different ways to develop young QB's and provided some examples. Fields especially looks like a guy who may be suffering more harm than good with the beating he's taking and his body language last week.
Agree on Fields, NAE. He looks like he's getting close to a point where the beating he is taking creates mental scars. And it isn't because his OL is rubbish - a lot of the issues are caused by his own decision-making, which is to be expected. I think it is good for his development to have gotten the starts he's had, but don't want a whole lot more like that imo.
DeleteIf Kyle stays the course, the status quo, and sticks with Jimmy through this season, I think 5-12 is the most realistic record for this team. As poorly as they are playing, they do have a few winnable games, and one of a few winnable games coming up this week.
ReplyDeleteHowever, something drastic needs to change with this team .... sooner rather than later!
Something very drastic 49Reasons.
Delete49R,
ReplyDeleteIf the 49ers go 5-12 the major change could very well be that Shanahan and Lynch are shown the door. There would likely be a small revolt in the locker room because they know that this team is too talented to lose that many games. With that kind of losing record the blame would have to go to Shanahan.
After last Sunday's game, Deebo said that the team was to good to lose like this (paraph). I could only imagine what Aiyuk' opinion might be. Another loss this Sunday could bring out the boo-birds, have prop planes flying over Levi's and ignite a small dumpster fire, lol.
AES
DeleteSeattle is in last place in the division, with their (2W-5L) record.
The 9ers are in 3rd place with their (2W-4L) record.
Seattle plays the Jaguars (1W-5L) this Sun. and should win.
The 9ers play the Bears (3W-4L) this Sun. and should also win.
Should the 9ers lose to the bears and Seattle wins, the 9ers will be in last place in their division, the same place they finished the 2020 season in. Could the 9ers go 5W-12L in 2021, one win less than 2020? If the 9ers lose to the bears, a 5W-2L season in 2021 is the one thing they have a good chance of being successful at. It will also mean KS's record for his 5 year tenure, would be a dismal 4 losing seasons and only one winning season.
GEEP,
DeleteGood points. I actually see Seattle trending up with the return of Russell once he's healthy. That same can't be said of the 49ers. We have Kittle coming back, but can he stay healthy? Greenlaw is also coming back, but Shaair is bal'n out and end up being better than Greenlaw.
A 5-12 record is not so far-fetched based on the product we've see on the field. And what makes matters is that we have no help coming from the draft in the next two years.
If we go 5-12 this season, Shanahan and Lynch don't deserve to come back.
Gonna catch a break in Chicago. Khalil Mack is out.
ReplyDeleteJJ Watt won't be embarrassing the 49ers OL in their next matchup with the Cards either.
DeleteCool. Now the Cardinals can feel our pain signing an aging vet with medical concerns.
DeleteRazor
DeleteMaybe I'm being too optimistic, but just MAYBE the 9ers will actually win a game this week? What an odd feeling of euphoria that would produce?
SUCCESSFUL NFL QB'S THAT STARTED AS A ROOKIE:
ReplyDeleteJosh Allen, Buffalo Bills
Lamar Jackson, Baltimore Ravens
Kyler Murray, Arizona Cardinals
Joe Burrow, Cincinnati Bengals
Justin Herbert, Los Angeles Chargers
Mac Jones, New England Patriots
Baker Mayfield, Cleveland Browns
How many made the playoffs in their rookie season? How many had one year of College starting experience?
DeleteNotanexpert
DeleteBETTER QUESTION: !) How many took over from a QB with a 2W-4L losing record. 2) How many took over from a QB that missed 24 of 53 starts since the franchise made him the highest-paid player in the league?
3) How much money would the 9ers have saved, if they cut JG and used the money to sign a FA CB and another FA RG O-lineman?
I could list several more "what if's," but you get the idea.
Notanexpert
DeleteSOMETHING TO PONDER IN PURSUIT OF LIFE
How many people enjoy rooting for a loser?
Geep we see the same crap with Jimmy G like before with Alex Smith, those apologists dont understand that its time to move on from a qb who cant move the chains.
DeleteTrey showed against the Cards that he is made out of the good stuff.
@Robber:
DeleteIs he? That remains to be seen. It is time to move on from Jimmy G., but it's hard to say now that Trey is the answer.
Many were enthused when CK7 took over with Ron Jaworski saying:
"I truly believe Colin Kaepernick could be one of the greatest quarterbacks ever. I love his skill set. I think the sky's the limit."
How did that work out for the fans. I see the same enthusiasm with Trey and hopefully he has more dimensions to his game than CK did. Note that I am comparing fan reactions to CK and TL not CK and TL directly to one another.
Trey is very raw with very limited game action. Frankly, I didn't see much in that Cardinals game to get excited about. But let me be clear I'm not blaming Trey. It is certainly not his fault that KS decided to use him like a battering ram.
Having said all this, as fans we don't have much choice but to really hope and pray that Trey is the answer. ShanaLynch have pushed all of their poker chips into the center. I had hoped for a lot more out of the team and ShanaLynch by the fifth year so pardon me if I seem negative.
Robber / cubus
DeleteJust to make myself clear....
I have not said JG should be benched, NOT YET!
On game one, KS should have put Lance in for 6-8 reps that played to his strength. Then added 3-4 plays each game that Lance and the rest of the offense had demonstrated in practice, they were all in synch and comfortable running.
There are those who believe Lance can gain the needed experience to be the starting QB in pre season and in practice. The fallacy of that is, JG gets the reps with the starters, not JG. And with the limited games Lance played in the FCS, playing in pre season, against mostly back up players, will NOT GET HIM READY FOR THE 2022 SEASON!!! And that will result in yet another 9er losing season!
In hind sight, which we all know is 20/20, there are a number of things we can fault both JL and KS with. But
that's water under the bridge and it time to admit what KS has been doing with both Lance and JG, IS NOT WORKING.
The definition of insanity, is to continue doing what you've been doing and expect different results.....
I REST MY CASE!
-BETTER QUESTION: !) How many took over from a QB with a 2W-4L losing record. 2) How many took over from a QB that missed 24 of 53 starts since the franchise made him the highest-paid player in the league?
Delete3) How much money would the 9ers have saved, if they cut JG and used the money to sign a FA CB and another FA RG O-lineman?
I could list several more "what if's," but you get the idea.-
My question was not a what if and you answered it by ignoring it and throwing out a bunch of hypotheticals.
I'll answer it for you: 1 played less than two seasons in College (Murray) and 1 made the playoffs their rookie year (Jackson). All have become pretty good QB's as time has gone on, but most weren't all that good their rookie season. They all with the exception of Murray had far more experience, and all played much higher competition in College.
As to your last hypothetical, who were they going to sign with the money saved from cutting Garoppolo that was going to change the course of this season? There was nobody on the FA list who was going to help this team win as much as keeping Garoppolo would because no player or position affects the outcome as much as a QB.
More proof that Kyle Shanahan coaches scared: Kyle Shanahan has been outscored 46-0 combined, after the 3rd QTR of both Super bowls.
ReplyDelete49Reasons all cuz of Kyle's ego and going uncreative defensive.
ReplyDeleteHi guys i want to apologise me for my performance against the Colts well guys i have a excuse i had a wild night with some pornactresses so i was banged up.
DeleteInteresting comments from Steve Young on his weekly slot on KNBR. You can read the full interview on 49ersWebzone.
ReplyDeleteKey talking point, 49ers locker room and Trey Lance. It's worth a read.
AES
DeleteWhile I accept what Young had to say about the
'TERROR IN THE 9ERS LOCKER ROOM, IMO, he's still making excuses for JG and how it's affected his dismal performance in 2022! In fact, if I accept what Young says on face value, it's an indictment of KS and JL for the way they handled drafting lance, trading Buckner, letting Sherman go and not their providing leadership in the locker room.
WHEN THE 9ER SHIP RUNS AGROUND, WHO'S TO BLAME?
Oh, right, I forgot....it's the players fault for not
executing...RIGHT?