Plans are of little importance, but planning is essential. The 49ers plan was to develop Trey Lance behind their starting quarterback, Jimmy Garoppolo. The best laid plans can sometimes go awry, and that's where the team found itself last Sunday afternoon. Without their starting quarterback the team was forced to play the rookie. In an almost see I told you so game plan, Lance was operating a cheap knock off of a Cam Newton offense. After the game it was revealed that he sustained a sprained knee, and his availability in 2 weeks is in jeopardy.
That brings us to plan B. Tell a defense that's playing lights out that we're moving forward with the rookie to develop him for next year, and in the same breath reinforce that this is not a lost season. Good luck with that!
Additionally, if the offense we saw Sunday is indicative of the offense we'll continue to see with Trey Lance at quarterback, it doesn't make sense to me to expose the future of your franchise to that kind of development.
I agree.
ReplyDeleteKyle has the same stubborness like Harbaugh you dont win SB's with this.
Lance's knee sprain sure smells like a hoax. It seems awfully convenient that this injury seemed to come out of nowhere. Knee sprains almost always show up right away, I n fact I am hard pressed to remember a situation where a knee sprain didn't present until late in the evening, hours and hours after it allegedly occurred, and it sure makes it a lot easier for Kyle to justify not starting Lance on week 6, against the wishes of the majority of the fan base. As for the defense, to a man they would rather play with Lance as the starter, because for all of his current shortcomings, he's better than Jimmy at avoiding going 3 and out, which is why the 49ers defense looked fresh through 4 QTR's for really the first time all season.
ReplyDeleteBut the reality is, it's Kyle's lack of vision that has created all most of the problems that have plagued the 49ers for most of this season. Kyle's been unsure about the design of his offense this year, and that uncertainty really started before training camp.
His inability to put together a solid game plan, particularly in the first halves of their games, is the main reason a majority of the fan base blame Kyle at this point. Trey Lance put together a valiant effort and almost single handedly carried the 49ers offense despite the fact that Kyle hasn't made Trey's development a priority. Do honestly, where does a team go from here?
In the eyes of most real fans, those of us we call the Faithful, Kyle's game plan VS the Cardinals was as bad as it gets! It seemed to be contrary to everything we know about Kyle as a play caller, and certainly antithetical to taking the pressure off of an inexperienced rookie making his first NFL start.
Something is going on with Kyle Shanahan behind the scenes, that doesn't square with reality. Every decisions he's made during this off-season has been illogical and shortsighted. And all of these decisions have contributed to the position the 49ers find themselves in now.
Honestly, it doesn't really seem to matter who Kyle has at QB right now, because Kyle's offensive system has been lacklustre, uninspired, and just plain boring. Everything about the current day NFL is geared towards scoring points. All of the rule changes over the last 10 years have been favorable towards the passing game. Yet, Kyle seems stuck in time. The rest of the league is evolving towards high flying offenses, centered around a potent passing attack, and Kyle has Jimmy Garoppolo, who for whatever reason is reluctant to push the football downfield, and who's shortcomings are hindrance in regards to scoring points.
And now, the one game where handing the ball off on 65% of the snaps actually made strategic sense, Kyle called 10 total handoffs to his running backs, and the results were exactly what one would expect them to be.
Kyle Shanahan is stuck in the mud. Everything he touches seems to turn into dust. The offensive wizardry that he built his reputation on has vanished right in front of our eyes. It's a disappearing act that would make even David Copperfield jealous, and to be honest, I am sick and tired of Kyle's slight of hand. He's isn't fooling anyone anymore because the league has caught up to him, and his fan base has hit their breaking point.
Should the 49ers trade Kyle Shanahan to the Raiders now that they need a head coach?
ReplyDeleteIt’s a way for the Niners to address a couple of their biggest challenges moving forward over the next few years. They could use the trade in order to recoup a lot of their draft capital, and they could implement a new offensive scheme that actually takes advantage of Trey Lance’s skill-set.
And the Raiders might actually be a great fit for Kyle Shanahan as well, after all, his offense sure would seem right at home wandering around the parched earth of the Las Vegas dessert.
Shanny's play calling on 4th downs was disturbing, but I seriously doubt his seat is even a little warm. The only way that happens is if they finish the season without a winning record.
ReplyDeleteRazor
Delete"The only way that happens is if they finish the season without a winning record."
* Ahh yes, remind me again what their record is after Arizona? 2W-3L and LAST PLACE in the division?
* After the break the 9ers play the colts. Based on their record of 1W-4L, they should win (MAYBE). And that's predicated on the D keeping them in the game, giving JG a chance to win it...OR MAYBE NOT)? The 9ers play the Rams the next week (Nov 15th), who are 4W-1L. Based on the Rams and Cardinals schedule, the 9ers will then be a 3W-4L team and 4 games behind Arizona.
Looking at the 9ers remaining 2021 schedule, the 9ers will finish the season as an 8W-9L team...MAYBE with
some luck, a few breaks and players staying health, a
9W-8L team? THAT ASSUMES JG DOESN'T SPEND TIME ON IR. I guess I fail to see how that motivates the defense,
or gets the 9ers into a play off game?
You guys both make good points. I just don't how the Niners turn this thing around this season. I have no reason to believe Jimmy Garoppolo is suddenly going to turn durable for the remainder of the season, and I don't know how Trey Lance get's much better once Jimmy gets back to taking most of the first team reps in practice on a weekly basis. It feels like Kyle has his offense stuck between a rock and a hard place this year, and it didn't need to be this way, IMO.
DeleteLance was put in a bad situation having to play while obviously not ready. At times during the game it looked as if he was not only raw, but he was trying to catch up with missing the 2019 college season.
ReplyDeleteBut even with the loss on Sunday, he did enough to show that when he's ready he will carry the 49ers for years to come.
After Sundays loss, I felt that Jimmy would not have faired any better had he been able to play. Garoppolo most likely would have taken more sacks and possibly thrown some bone head Int's while forcing throws under a hard pass rush.
This year is starting to look like we're in a loop mode carried over from last season. Ahhmm, is it to early to start looking at next year's draft? lol.
"At times during the game it looked as if he was not only raw, but he was trying to catch up with missing the 2019 college season."
DeleteHow so?
I'll be honest, I was actually quite happy with how Lance performed from a mental standpoint - he didn't always make the correct decisions but he didn't look overwhelmed at all and was no longer the frantic looking player we saw against the Seahawks. I thought he did an excellent job knowing when to escape the pocket as well, wasn't a case of happy feet but also was quick to sense pressure.
The biggest issue was really his accuracy and batted balls.
The batted balls are mostly a product of Trey staring down his receivers, am I right Scooter?
DeletePartially. But lots of QBs do that.
DeleteThe main issue is timing and pocket manipulation. Lance is still learning the timing of the offense to know where passing lanes will be, and also how to make subtle movements in the pocket to create the lanes he needs.
The game plan was obviously designed with the idea that it would help Lance out by simplifying things. But I still didn't like it. Putting Lance in harms way that often wasn't a smart plan imo.
ReplyDeleteI really didn't like that Shanahan didn't give Lance a bunch of plays designed to get him outside the pocket and making some fairly simple high-low reads.
I agree Lance shouldn't start if that game plan is the one Shanahan would employ the rest of the season if Lance was the starter. But I think that is as much a Shanahan issue as Lance issue. If Shanahan was going to get Lance playing more of Shanahan's typical system with some zone read mixed in then I'd strongly consider going with Lance.
In terms of selling it to the players, the only way to sell it is that you believe Lance gives you the best chance to win.
I think it is all a moot point though. I very much doubt Shanahan will be giving the keys to Lance if both QBs are healthy. It still looks like Shanahan very much wants JG to be the starter this year. That's fine, but JG, Shanahan and the rest of the offense all need to improve significantly if they want to be making the playoffs this year.
Two things stood out to me, Lance is not ready to take over and the game of football isn't too big for Lance. He is raw as can be, I have zero issues with his game so far.
ReplyDeleteWhen an offense is running smoothly its okay to go for it on 4th down. But this year's offense has been nothing but herkie jerky, can't count on it.
Losses really mess with fans heads. This topic reads like a conspiracy theory. From the start Shanahan and Lynch have said they wanted to keep Garoppolo as the starter so they could develop Lance. The reason for that is incredibly obvious: Lance has played one season of football since he left High School. The one season he did play in the last 3 years was in a lower division of College Football against competition his team was usually a lot better than.
ReplyDeleteLance has a ton of physical talent, he's smart and has played in a pro style offense. All great, but what he doesn't have is a lot of experience against top flight competition and that shows every time he's out there. His movements and recognition are too slow, he doesn't step up in the pocket enough which leaves the OL grabbing DL who they thought they pushed beyond the pocket, he doesn't see the whole field and takes off because of it. Most alarming was his lack of self preservation when running the ball at times. You can't take a defender head on in this league as a QB no matter how big you are. He has so much to learn and is a developmental player at least for this year which is why Shanahan didn't want to start him this season and had to implement a simplistic game plan that gave little to think about and let him use his legs more than his arm.
I said on another topic that Garoppolo gives the 49ers their best chance to win right now and that shouldn't even be a question anymore. They know what they are doing with Lance. They seem him every day and know what he can handle at this point of his young career. Fans are going to whine and moan because they want to see the new toy play but a Football Coach has to do what he thinks is going to gain the most success and that plan was to get Lance touches on a small scale over time and let him learn without having to be thrown in the fire. He's clearly nowhere near ready to play at a high level and the way Shanahan wants him to play within the system. I'd recommend you guys and girls relax be patient and let it play out. Lance is a long game play who hopefully will become great but for right now the best option is the guy who has won 75% of the games he's started and it looks like he'll be back for Indy.
Let' not twist this thing around, notanexpert.
DeleteEver since Kyle felt like he had to take the ball out of Jimmy Garoppolo's hands during the 2019 postseason, only to find themselves in a situation where they needed to depend on him, and watch him FAIL, ShanaLynch have made a concerted effort to replace Jimmy Garoppolo.
Everyone knows they've been trying to find a replacement for Garoppolo for the last year and a half! In fact, ShanaLynch have been very up front about looking for Jimmy's replacement, both on internet podcast, as well as through media reports, although they have wavered about their reasoning. Behind the scenes, KYLE'S FRUSTRATIONS WITH JIMMY ARE AN OPEN SECRET! It doesn't take a CIA-level codebreaker to figure out why Kyle wants to move on from Jimmy, because of Jimmy's limitations as a QB, but they claim they are only looking for his replacement because can't stay healthy.
The reasons for why they have been trying to replace Garoppolo for the last year and a half, are as clear as a mountain stream!
In the pre-draft presser, a visibly irritated Kyle Shanahan stated that the 49ers were looking for a "starting quarterback" .... and Kyle used the term STARTING QUARTERBACK at least a HALF A DOZON TIMES!
So then they draft Trey Lance, and there were a lot of reports indicating that suddenly the 49ers would only be willing to trade Garoppolo if the team was offered what they believed to be fair compensation, even though most people felt like it was cost prohibitive to do so, considering the salary cap implications! And it was also widely reported that 49ERS were looking for a 1st round pick in exchange for Jimmy.
See what I mean, notanexpert? That's not the same thing as acting like the plan all along was to hold onto Garoppolo to run it back on some kind of Revenge Tour 2.0, or whatever delusional plan of attack they supposedly had in mind.
The fact is, they drafted a QB who has an entirely different skill set to Garoppolo, and once you factor in the salary cap implications, and the extraordinary amount of draft capital they spent on Trey Lance, running it back with Garoppolo as the QB1 couldn't have been the plan all along, as you are trying to suggest. It only became the plan at some point during training camp. A training mind you, in which the rookie was actually outplaying the veteran according to most of the nonbiased reporters, And fans were still told that Kyle would go with the QB who gave the team the best chance to win. And we all know that Jimmy's limitations are holding this team back, so this was a QUARTERBACK CONTROVERSY WAITING To HAPPEN!
And now, low and behold, here we are with a classic, distracting, self-defeating, QUATERBACK CONTROVERSY, and the team has not one, but TWO injured quarterbacks, and are once again in LAST PLACE in the NFC West!
What a brilliant plan! SMH!
That's why Kyle Shanahan needs to be traded, or shown the door at the end of the year, unless they turn this train wreck around!
DeleteWe are in the 5th year of the Shanahan regime .... and Kyle still hasn't figured out the most important position on the team ... the Quarterback position! And it's a quarterback driven league, so this shortsighted failure is simply inexcusable, and can no longer be tolerated by the fan base unless that fan base excuses failure at the most basic level!
And what about 2022? There is a very big risk of Kyle's shortsightedness derailing next season, because if anyone thinks Trey Lance is going to suddenly take a big step forward next year, by somehow magically developing while sitting on the bench for the rest of this year, I've got a bridge I'd like to sell you.
DeleteThe kid has played maybe 8+ quarters of football in the last 20 months ... something like that? That's not a formula for drastically improving as a QB. Kyle should gone all in starting from trghe first day of training camp, and by the time we to December, we could have hoped that Trey Lance would be progressing enough to help this compete down the stretch. The 49ers would have an additional $26M in salary cap space next year, and they would have a dynamic young QB who is far enough along in his development to potentially lead this team to the Super bowl.
49reasons pretty much everything you write and believe is based on rumors and narratives created by media and wanna be media. If you want to know the truth of what the teams plans are watch what they do instead of forming and/or believing conspiracy theories.
DeleteTo address some of your points:
Yes Shanahan said he was looking to draft a starting QB and at the same time also said his preference was if you have a veteran on the roster you've won with you'd rather start him and not have to throw the rookie into the fire. He said before TC even got under way that Garoppolo was the starter as did Lynch. When TC was nearing it's end he said he saw nothing to change his feelings on the QB position.
Shanahan didn't feel he had take the ball out of Garoppolo's hands during the playoffs in 2019. JG had just come off a great game in Seattle heading into the playoffs. He throws a pick against Minnesota and then the narrative is Shanahan panicked and took the ball out of his hands and that is BS. Garoppolo continued to throw the ball after that and they didn't go primary run calls until Cousins threw a pick and they were able to score a TD running the ball after that. In the GB game they were destroying the Packers on the ground. There was no reason to throw the ball. In the SB they relied on Jimmy and the passing game from the start and up until the last 8 mins, Garoppolo had a great game going. Sure you would like to see him step up and make a better throw on the deep shot to Sanders but his team was leading with 7 mins left in the game. He played well that day overall.
That leads to the belief that the 49ers wanted to replace Garoppolo going into the next season. Again simply not true. They had Brady telling them he wanted to play for them and didn't sign him. Those are facts. What you post on here are not.
There is one reason they decided that had to look at replacing Garoppolo and that is because he has not been able to stay healthy. Everything they've done including keeping him as the starter and drafting a developmental QB backs that up.
There is no QB controversy other than with fans like yourself who just want to see the new guy play whether he's ready or not. Shanahan's actions have been consistent with what he's said. It's going to take Lance time to get to the point where he can perform at a level that Shanahan believes gives the team the best chance to win. The game plan you hated so much last week was what the kid could handle at this point in his development. A HC in the NFL's number one objective is to win football games. It's not to let a rookie take his lumps and lose games while he's doing it in the hopes that he will be better later on unless that is the only option he has. They kept Garoppolo so they wouldn't have to do that. The plan was and continues to be letting Lance learn this season if possible and try to win games with the QB who has won 70% of the games he's started for the team. You aren't happy with that and want the HC fired, traded or tarred and feathered which is a typical irrational fan response. You have two choices really: you can accept that things are not going the way you want them to and develop some patience, or you can bale the way you have previously when things haven't gone well. Or I guess you can continue with these insane ramblings to yourself. Your choice.
49reasosn...GET YOUR SHIT OUT IN ONE POST!
DeleteI think that Shanahan has a screw loose. Not a joke. Very serious about this. I also think that McGlinchey should be benched in favor of Jaylon Moore. McGlinchey's awful. Moore couldn't be worse and he'd learn. My two cents.
ReplyDeleteGeorge,
DeleteI agree on McGlinchey. The amount of chances this guy gets is unreal!
Shanahan seems to play favorites and is more interested in "teaching lessons" to players than scoring points and winning games.
How do 2 high round draft picks (Pettis & Aiyuk) have great rookie seasons and then fade away the next season? Seems to me this is a coaching/development problem. Shanahan does not understand that his success is tied to these players, because HE TRADED UP for them in the draft!
Trey Sermon had his best game against the Seahawks and the next game he gets two carries! How is Shanahan coaching up this player and instilling confidence in him?
Anytime someone asks him a question on snap count, he says "We didn't mean to do that....but that is how it worked out". Better Head coaches like Andy Reid and McVay always seem to get their playmakers (Kelce/Hill/Cupp/Woods) the ball.
Someone needs to hold Kyle Shanahan accountable. He should be judged solely on his record. Everything else is noise. Enough already with the excuses.
At least some fans are now realizing that it is not all Unicorns/Bells/Whistles here.
George
Delete"I also think that McGlinchey should be benched in favor of Jaylon Moore."
I don't disagree with you...But McGlinchey's NOT the
most inept player on 9er's O-Line right side. That dubious distinction belongs to OG Brunskill...Which
leads to the discussion of why the 9ers drafted OG Aaron Banks and one more questionable decision.
Since the year 2000, 50 NFL coaches have been with one team for at least parts of five seasons.
ReplyDeleteKyle Shanahan’s .449 winning % with the 49ers ranks 46th out of 50.
The only head coaches with worse winning % in that group are:
47th – Jay Gruden .418 – Washington
48th – Jeff Fisher .409 – Rams
49th – Jim Schwartz .363 – Lions
50th – Doug Marrone .348 – Jaguars
Here is a great breakdown of some of the good and bad you get with Lance for anyone interested. Sadly it also shows just how inept Dwelley is as a blocker... he doesn't even look like he is interested in pretending to want to block.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sndq9sEmDAo
Yes, I had been waiting for a NFL QB to break down Kyle's game plan for Lance, and this video was very helpful in understanding what Lance's shortcomings are at this time.
DeleteNiners would have one this game with Kittle, even if he was used purely as a blocker.
49ERS News: Brian Baldinger BLASTS Kyle Shanahan's game plan for Trey Lance!
ReplyDeleteBrian Baldinger is not a guy who likes to heap criticism on a coach, but Baldy seems as angry as I am, and I don't think he's even a 49ers fan. His article points to every single complaint I had with Kyle's mind-numbingly stupid offensive game plan VS the Cardinals!
DeleteThe only valid reason I can think of as to why Shanny quit feeding Mitchell was to manage his shoulder.
ReplyDelete49Reasons better have patience till met seasons if Trey is more seasoned than Kyle will alter his offense a bit.
ReplyDeleteBut i agree that Trey needs to get more reps with the firsts or get the startinggig cuz when he plays you know that any moment there can be magic in the air cuz with Jimmy that's not happening, the colored glassed Jimmy G fans like Notanexpert think the opposite ofcourse.
Robber,
DeleteI don't wear rose colored glasses and if I felt Lance gave the 9ers a better chance to win I'd be all for him starting. I back Garoppolo because he gives the team the best chance to win right now. If you feel differently then that is your right but the play on the field tells me Lance is not ready and I'd rather start the guy who has won most of his starts than a rookie who needs to develop his game in a lot of areas. If Lance reaches the point he is the best option this season then I'm fine with that but he's not there now.
Razoreater,
That was an area I think Shanahan really screwed up. Not sure why he didn't run the ball more and if he was concerned about Mitchell's shoulder, he should have given Sermon more opportunities.
We see it differently Notanexpert hehe,if Trey was rattled i could agree with you but that was not the case cuz he was composed.
DeleteWe can all agree that something needs to be done on our o-line and our playcalling or scheme.
Nothing wrong with seeing it differently just don't label me as something I'm not. The only thing I care about as a longtime fan of this team is winning. I thought Lance was the key to our success this year I'd be all for him starting but I see a green as grass rookie QB who is trying to do it all with his physical gifts because his mind isn't there yet. I expect him to improve and get there eventually but I'm not in favor of watching him struggle and losing games while he's doing it. This is why you have a vet QB on the roster and the only reason they bench Jimmy is if he is struggling or injured.
DeleteI mean patience till next season.
ReplyDeleteFor me, the bloom is off the rose when it comes to Shanahan. An offensive genius makes lemonade out of lemons - KS has not shown that he can do that.
ReplyDeleteOf course he'll get the season to turn things around and I truly hope he proves me wrong. But credible analysts are questioning his competence. Half the fans over at NN are calling for his ouster. Many are pointing out that Harbaugh, like him or hate him, never had a losing season (well, I don't remember about his last season), whereas KS has one winning season.
Jack Hammer is retweeting tweets that ask when are we going to stop with the excuses for KS and hold him accountable.
I's time to stop being blinded by the "offensive genius" press (from people like his buddy, Simms) and see the situation for what it really is. Again, I hope KS proves me wrong - but I'm not holding my breath either.
His last season was 8-8 if I remember. Yeah, firing a guy with his record, much as I hated his Neanderthal football propensities, and replacing him with a coach like Tomsula was organizational insanity. Four seasons, three NFC Championship Games, one Super Bowl. One reason I hate the Yorks.
DeleteThanks, George:
DeleteWow. I forgot about three NFC conference games in his first three seasons.
"Harbaugh became the first NFL head coach to have reached a conference championship game in each of his first three seasons."
Cubus,
DeleteI think he clearly made lemonade out of lemons in 2019 didn't he? They went half the season with a mediocre at best WR group until they brought in Sanders, yet finished second in scoring and 4th in total offense. Last season was a write off with all the injuries yet he still had them competitive for most of the year with backups and guys off the street. This season has started slowly due to their inability to run the ball consistently but are still middle of the pack in both points scored and total offense. I know people don't like to hear it but injuries play a role and losing multiple running backs and having to rely on rookies and again guys off the street at times has stunted the running game. If they can actually keep the same guys on the field for a few weeks I think you'll see the running game improve and the overall offense look a lot better right along with it. This is an offense that relies on the run to make everything else work. This is not an offense built to sit back in shotgun and throw the ball 40+ times a game. If they can't run the ball the entire offense suffers.
Shanahan's job is not on the line based on what happens this year. If you think that then I'm sorry you are wrong. He's going to be here for a few years yet, at least until we see how Lance develops over the next couple of seasons so you best settle in and let it play out.
Something that has become clear from watching reviews by people that know how to break down film - a lot of the 49ers issues on offense come down simply to execution, not scheme or play calling.
DeleteGuys continually making mistakes is something that still needs to be put on the HC to some degree, don't get me wrong. Especially when that HC is now on the wrong side of the W-L ledger in 2021 and if it continues would mean 4 losing seasons out of 5. But Shanahan also can't go out on the field and make guys do the right things on a play.
"But Shanahan also can't go out on the field and make guys do the right things on a play."
DeleteWhy, Scooter? Almost by definition successful coaches can get their players to execute successfully. It's the fifth year. There was supposed to be a major culture change with KS; I think there was to some degree but that should include the player's taking responsibility for their execution. The buck stops with the guy at the top. This is an excuse that has been around for a while.
NAE:
DeleteI respect your opinions and think you have football intelligence. However, weren't you also the one who had a very, very difficult time accepting that KS and JL planned to move on from JG by drafting a QB. I've noticed that your position is changing to basically accept that Jimmy will be here this year but gone next.
KS needs to be held accountable. Jed owes it to the fans.
Having said that I'd prefer he be successful because, hey, I'm not getting any younger and I'd like to have a winning team now.
Cubus, re-read what I wrote. I think we are actually in agreement. I said he should be accountable for not getting guys to do these things. But at some level you also have to put the blame on the players themselves if they are making mistakes. Shanahan can't physically go onto the field and make the guys do the right thing.
DeleteScooter, I did understand what you wrote. It's a matter of degree. It seems like you're willing to give KS some leeway on his responsibility while I'm willing to give less.
DeleteCubus,
DeleteI appreciate that thank you. This name I came up with was mainly a sarcastic response to all the internet experts who frequent these websites and Twitter but it's also true in the fact I don't consider myself a football expert. I am just another fan who is passionate about his team and throws out opinions. One of those opinions as you pointed out what not supporting the trading up in the draft to take a QB. That hasn't changed. I didn't like the amount of draft capital given up to make the move and would have preferred signing a solid vet backup before making such a drastic decision to move on. Having said that I also know what I don't know and that is how good Shanahan and Lynch think the team can be moving forward with Lance. They know a lot more than I do and if they felt this was what was needed to be successful moving forward I support it. I have nothing against Lance or any other QB who may have been drafted if it wasn't him. Just saw it differently. Now it's just about who gives us the best chance to win for me. Right now I see that being Garoppolo but I also know he's on borrowed time and as soon as Lance is deemed ready by Shannahan, he's the guy. I just don't think you make that move before he's ready.
You seem like an intelligent passionate fan yourself and I respect that. I just preach patience because I know he's not going to be fired no matter what happens this year and I don't think he's lost any ability as a HC. What's happening right now is adjustments to the players lost to injury and continuing to try and find the answer to the running game struggles. I truly believe once (if) that is worked out, the offense will be much better.
Cubus,no, I am not absolving Shanahan at all. Just pointing out that the players deserve as much blame. It is a collective "failure".
DeleteJack Hammer on the oline (video):
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ab35z5VxztY
Lets get this straight...LANCE IS NOT THE STARTER.
ReplyDeleteREPEAT...LANCE IS NOT THE STARTER.
No matter how many posts made that try to will this into existence, he is NOT THE STARTER.
Jimmy will be back vs Indi and as long as he stays healthy he is the starter.
Period.
Well then eMJay, we can use you as an example of the misguided principles that essentially set this organization back until 2023 at the earliest. I say that because you are an example of a fan who is clinging onto the past, while ignoring the current events. You're chasing rainbows, dude! Jimmy Garoppolo isn't leading this team to the Super bowl this season, no matter how strongly you hold out hope!
DeleteJimmy Garoppolo has been doing barely enough to beat the bad teams, and not nearly enough to beat the good teams. He's not playing good football, even when healthy, and that isn't a recipe for success. But despite this fact, you would rather postpone Trey's development even though the future of the franchise depends on it? The way I see it .... it should be clear to everyone who watched Sunday's game that Trey Lance needs to play. Not playing him would be doing the 49ers organization a grave disservice, not just for whatever playoff hopes that we cling to for this season, but for next season especially, and beyond. That's the biggest issue with the position you are taking.
Jimmy won't be here next season. let's get that straight right now. What the 49ers absolutely, positively cannot afford, is to delay Trey's development ahead of their pivotal 2022 season. You only get 5 years worth of salary cap advantage with a rookie QB. That advantage does you no good sitting on the sideline and holding a clipboard. Quarterbacks don't magically develop by watching from the sideline, and even worse, running the scout team in practice instead of taking first team reps, and developing rapport with your starting WR's, TE's, and RB's, as well as developing chemistry with your starting OL.
Sitting Trey for the remainder of this season, is only likely to set this team back going into 2022, which means your sacrificing at least 2 years of his rookie contract for developmental purposes. That was OK 25 years ago, that's no longer smart football team management in 2021 and beyond.
Trey Lance was thrust into the starting lineup, on the road, totally unprepared, and his HC/OC did him absolutely no favors with his game plan, and Trey STILL managed to hold his own, and kept his team in the game. In other words, Trey was more competitive than their $25M QB who is now only a short term player on this roster. Imagine how well Trey would be playing, and could be playing, in December of this season, and especially on opening day of 2022.
The sooner the 49ers develop Trey Lance, the sooner they can start thinking about getting back to the Super Bowl. And the notion that Jimmy Garoppolo is set in stone for now, as the team's starting QB, even though he's playing poorly, his team can't score points, he simply can't stay healthy, is bad enough.
I'm sorry, eMJay, But the fact that Garoppolo wont even be in the picture after this season, and the team's future is now directly tied to Trey Lance's development, makes your statements frankly Ludacris, and that's putting it lightly. For you to not understand how important Trey Lance's' development is for this team, not just for a potential postseason appearance this later this year, but really for the next five years at a minimum, I think you need to re-evaluate your misguided ideas about where the 49ers are now as a team, and where they need the QB situation to be in the very near future, because the idea that Trey shouldn't be playing, and thus his development shouldn't be the 49ers #1 priority, is frankly a recipe for disaster!
Like I said, eMJay, I suggest you stop chasing rainbows, because the reality is, the 49ers aren't going anywhere with Garoppolo this season, and they will likely suffer further setbacks next season, if they don't stop messing around with this nonsense of playing Jimmy G ahead of trey Lance, cuz it ain't working bro, so wake up!
These are the rantings of a lunatic. Please seek help.
Delete49reasons, eMJay just outlined some simple facts. Where was he wrong?
DeleteYou can argue how much you think Lance should start until you are blue in the face, but it is clear Shanahan wants JG to be the starter this year whenever he is healthy.
The idea that, as long as Jimmy is healthy, that he should be the starter, is nonsense. And as a fan, I reject this notion because it has the potential to set the organization back for years to come.
DeleteNeed I really remind everyone how undependable Jimmy has been, even when he plays, over the last couple years. I've argued this at least a thousand times - ShanaLynch didn't just draft Trey Lance because Jimmy can't stay healthy. You don't trade away 3 first round picks just because your $25M "starter" can't stay healthy. The whole idea about trading for Lance was so that Trey Lance could replace Jimmy as the starter. And insiders know damn well that Jimmy's starting this year is plan B. Plan A was to find a quarterback with a higher ceiling to replace him, and to get that QB up to speed in order to take over for Garoppolo. The only thing ShanaLynch are accomplishing by the way they are handling this is creating a quarterback controversy. Quarterback controversies are never a positive for a football team, that's a fact!
The time is now to replace Garoppolo, because he's not winning, and he's no longer in the team's long term plans. Every game he starts from here in out is one less game for Trey to use in order to develop, and his development is critical for the 49ers chances if they have playoff hopes this season, and definitely heading into next season!
There is no reason to cling into Jimmy other than chasing rainbows and hoping he'll somehow become somebody he isn't. The 49ers offense STINKS with Garoppolo as the starter, at the least they have over the last 17 months, so what are we doing if the only thing starting Jimmy accomplishes is putting off Trey's critical development.
That's NOT a recipe for winning this season, or 2022. And if it's not a recipe for winning, then a mistake!
What in those 10 points thinks that Lance is the better option vs the guy who's team averaged 26~ points in the first 4 games?
DeleteThe ONLY reason Lance was in that game on Sunday was because the defense played lights out, something they hadn't done all season except for the Phili game. Had that defense showed up against GB or Sea the Niners are 3-2/4-1. Jimmy wins that game on Sunday. Jimmy does not get those holding calls that Lance was getting because Jimmy isn't trying to run. Those holding calls KILLED drives.
I know you only want Lance, just like you only wanted Kaep...but the kid isn't ready yet. He's the youngest 49er starter ever (1 day younger than Alex was). Thats WAAAYYY too young for a guy who has played but 1 seasons of football since High School. Alex had 2ish seasons, playing in 25 games and going 21-1, under his belt and a Heisman finalist campaign before being drafted...Lance played 19 games.
He's not ready, he should sit, and anyone who wants him to start just enjoys bitching about the team losing because thats all that will happen.
To be fair, the entire offense did not do Lance any favors.
DeleteThe offense hasn't been its normal sharp self much this year (outside of game 1) either. Its just plain as day that Trey's running isn't improving the offense (many holding calls were because he'd run and go around blockers who would then have to hold otherwise Trey would be tackled) and his passing is too inconsistent to keep drives alive.
DeleteLance's time is next year.
Lance will never be the starter until he proves he can play from the pocket.
ReplyDeleteHe can manage the pocket there where enough examples of, its just about experience than he will command the offense more that's why he needs more reps/starts.
ReplyDeleteAnd Kyle had to let him much more under center cuz he handicapped him to much with every play in the shotgun but he still wasnt rattled.
That's right Robber ... If anything, Trey Lance proved Sunday that he ready enough to take over as the starter. That he even survived Kyle's ridiculous game plan, and basically singlehandedly kept the 49ers in the game, at least from an offensive standpoint point, was very impressive. Trey's ability to extend drives and avoid 3 and outs, also helped the 49ers defense, which is another factor that isn't being talked about enough.
DeleteThat doesn't mean Trey's a finished product by any stretch. The whole point of starting him is to make him better. It just means it makes more sense for the organization to start him, over Jimmy, given that Jimmy is not playing well, and is no longer in the team's long term plans moving forward.
This is not rocket science guys!
Fans kike notanexpert need to quit overthinking thi, and they need to quit chasing rainbows in some misguided hope for a successful revenge tour 2.0. Kyle may be trying to save his job, but that doesn't mean fans need to support his misguided handling of the 49ers future! Trey is the future, and the future is now, while Jimmy Garoppolo remaining the starting quarterback is only setting this team back with each and every start!
Actually, the whole point of starting Trey isn't just about getting him better. It's also about giving the team their best chance to win now. If Sunday was any indication, Trey can already do more to help this team win, than Jimmy Garoppolo can, with the hope being that his development will have this team in a better position to actually make a deep postseason run as soon as this year, provided they can find a way to make the playoffs. They might get there with Jimmy, although that's looking very unlikely, but this current 49ers team has almost NO chance of making a deep run this season with Jimmy at the helm.
DeleteBut for whatever happens between now and the end of this season, Trey Lance is going to be the guy starting in 2022, so his development throughout this season is not only critical of they hope to make a deep run this season, but it will also naturally give the 49ers a better chance to compete next season as well. Trey's going to need a decent number of games to really get comfortable in this offense, so if he doesn't play much this year, his critical stages of development will have to happen next year. Meaning the 49ers may not be a contender until 2023 at the earliest, and that's a risk most of us fans want to take.
That's a mindset that many of us fans have, and that is what is driving our anger. We've already seen Jimmy G. come up short in 2019, even though the 49ers were the best all around team in the NFL. If he couldn't close the deal in 2019, he's likely never going to close the deal. With that being the case, why are they wasting valuable time that could better spent getting Trey developed so that next time the 49ers have an opportunity to win a Super Bowl, that they have a QB who can actually help carry the team in the postseason and close the deal in the Super Bowl?
It's a quarterback driven league, and the league has never been stronger at the QB position than it is now, IMO.
Jimmy is not only an average QB by every metric, he's also the 4th best quarterback in his own division, and he's already proven he can't close the deal in the biggest moments, so how can the 49ers justify starting him over Trey Lance, when Lance is not only the more talented quarterback, he's also more entertaining, and the 48ers chances if winning a Super Bowl are directly tied to Trey's development as a QB.
Trey Lance is the future, while Jimmy's time has already past!
-Fans kike notanexpert need to quit overthinking thi, and they need to quit chasing rainbows in some misguided hope for a successful revenge tour 2.0. Kyle may be trying to save his job, but that doesn't mean fans need to support his misguided handling of the 49ers future! Trey is the future, and the future is now, while Jimmy Garoppolo remaining the starting quarterback is only setting this team back with each and every start!-
DeleteYou are seriously accusing others of overthinking? With all the crazy insane ramblings you put on here? This comment you made really explains a lot:
-That's a mindset that many of us fans have, and that is what is driving our anger. We've already seen Jimmy G. come up short in 2019, even though the 49ers were the best all around team in the NFL. If he couldn't close the deal in 2019, he's likely never going to close the deal. With that being the case, why are they wasting valuable time that could better spent getting Trey developed so that next time the 49ers have an opportunity to win a Super Bowl, that they have a QB who can actually help carry the team in the postseason and close the deal in the Super Bowl?-
This is so childish and ignorant on so many levels. You are angry because they didn't win the SB so obviously it's all on the QB and the only solution is to play anybody else whether they are ready or not. Seriously buddy grow up and try to understand this is not Madden where you just keep changing players in the hopes things work out better. The only way you win in this game is to keep players together practicing and playing as much as possible. That is why Lance is not the best option to play right now and it's why losing all those RB's is a problem. Football is the ultimate team sport it's not just about the QB. That is know nothing fan crap and it's clear you fall into that category based on your anger and inability to understand why the things you are saying don't make any sense.
49ers protect 3 practice squad players during bye week:
ReplyDeleteThe 49ers protected three players from getting poached off their practice squad, QB Nate Sudfeld, TE Tanner Hudson and O-Lineman Colton McKivitz won’t be signed by another club while the team has its week off.
The McKivitz protection could signal some kind of shuffle on the offensive line. He’s capable of playing guard and tackle, but didn’t work his way onto the active roster this preseason. RG Daniel Brunskill has had an up-and-down year, and the club may be looking at opening competition at right guard with McKivitz in the mix.
Letting McKivitz compete with Brunskill for the RG position would be a good start! Then follow up, by letting Jaylon Moore compete with Mike McGlinchey for the RT spot.
ReplyDeleteIf nothing else, it should build a fire under both Brunskill and McGlinchey and put them on notice they need to improve or they'll be replaced.
Barrows just posted a podcast that's worth a listen. He agrees with me that a return to plan A coming out of the bye is the way to go.
ReplyDeletehttps://twitter.com/i/status/1448672045026267136
ReplyDeleteYou mean with now and than a play for Trey?
ReplyDeleteBest thing would be that Trey gets more involved someway but as a QB not as a gimmick where is the wizard in Kyle'baby Mike' Shanahan?!
Robber / Razor
DeleteI have to agree with both of you on Trey VS JG. Give Trey opportunities that play to his strength and
build on it. Give him 6-8 plays at first and increase the number of plays as he demonstrates the ability to
handle more.
I also agree that as the 9ers RB become healthy, they need to return to the running game whether JG is the QB, or it's Lance.
Cosell:
ReplyDelete"I think about 10 or 11 of [the 16 carries] were designed runs, which is still quite a few," Cosell said on the Murph & Mac show. "And my sense is that was done in this given game for a couple of reasons. Number one, they wanted to get Lance comfortable, doing what he does well. He runs the ball well, and I'm sure he's been doing that since he started playing quarterback. He's always been a good athlete. My guess is they wanted to get him comfortable and settled into the game."
"The second part, I think, and the reason the number was probably high — relatively high — was because the game was close," Cosell continued. "And the 49ers never really, until that final touchdown by the Cards, the 49ers never really had to get out of their offensive approach.
"Whenever Lance becomes the starter, whenever that may be, my guess is that's not doing to be what they do on a weekly basis. I think that was more to get Trey Lance comfortable."
Cosell added that he felt the number of designed runs the 49ers asked Lance to do was "too much."
"I'll answer that this way: I think Kyle Shanahan and the staff knew that he wasn't quite ready to do that, and that's another reason they ran him so much," Cosell said. "I think he made a couple of really good throws. One was dropped by [Mohamed] Sanu; it might have been his best throw of the day. He made a really good throw to [Brandon] Aiyuk; I think it might have been 3rd-and-25, and I think it was for 26 yards. But then he missed a few.
"At this point in time, and this is what he needs to work on, and I don't know if this can be worked on through the course of a season or if you need an offseason, but he's a rocket-ball thrower. He needs to develop a lot more pace and touch on some of the shorter throws.
"… I think there were positives [and] there were negatives. And I think you keep working on what needs to be worked on. People say, 'Is the guy ready to be a starter?' That's a very subjective question. There's a lot of factors that go into that. But they've got a quality starting quarterback on the roster [in Jimmy Garoppolo]." "I know there's a lot of people who believe just because he can run around and Garoppolo can't, that that automatically makes him a better option," Cosell shared. "But I think the whole point, and the reason coaches work 16, 17 hours a day, is they want the quarterback to execute the offense. And I think, at this point in time, Jimmy Garoppolo executes the offense better than Trey Lance. But the bottom line is Trey Lance has started one game, so this is not a knock on Trey Lance. This is just where he is right now."
It sure sounds like Cossell is trying his best to make sense of a nonsensical situation. The idea that lining Trey Lance up in empty sets, whether he's running power draws against JJ Watt, 310LBS DT-Rashard Lawrence and LB's Zaven Collins and Isaiah Simmons, or passing the football out of empty sets, is somehow going to make Trey Lance comfortable, is like saying "I wanted my son to get comfortable when he was learning how to drive so I signed him up for the Indy 500."
DeleteI'm sorry, but running power runs as a QB in the FCS, against teams like Butler, Nicholls, and Youngstown St, is not the same thing as running against Arizona's DL. And passing out of empty sets? Everyone knows passing out of empty sets is the hardest thing to learn for a QB. Why .... because the opposing DB's can play much more aggressively against the WR's, which means SMALLER WINDOWS, and there isn't a RB left in PASS PROTECTION, which means less time for the QB to make his reads.
Sorry, Razor, but GREG COSSELL'S reasoning doesn't make much sense. It seems as if he is just trying to find some sort of logic for a game plan that every other NFL analyst who has watched the film, finds indefensible!
Think about it, Razor ... why can't Trey Lance line up under center and hand the ball off to his running backs? Wouldn't that really be the easiest way for Trey to get comfortable? I mean, I could line up under center and hand the ball off with a couple training camps worth of practice reps, and I'm not even a QB, although I play one on TV.
DeleteRazor:
DeleteI QUESTION some of the statements Cosell made
* "But they've got a "QUALITY" starting quarterback on the roster [in Jimmy Garoppolo]." * "I know there's a lot of people who believe just because he can run around and Garoppolo can't, that that automatically makes him a better option
* Definition of quality: The standard of something as measured against other things of a similar kind; the degree of excellence of something.
According to the definition of quality, JG's an AVERAGE QB with limited abilities...And it's NOT based
on JG"S inability to "RUN AROUND."
"And I think, at this point in time, Jimmy Garoppolo executes the offense better than Trey Lance."
* A more accurate statement IMO would be, JG executes a "LIMITED" offense better than Trey Lance.
I seem to remember the reason for trading 3 1st and a 3rd Rd. draft pick was 1) JG couldn't be counted on to stay healthy. And 2) With Trey at QB, KS could open up (and Trey could execute), his entire play book....
Steve Young pretty much backs up what Cosell said.
DeleteRazor
DeleteDoes Steve Young qualify his backing of Cosell, by admitting the 9er D has carried the offense (JG) in the 2 games they've won? That the combined 2021 W-L record for the Eagles and Lions is 2W-8L? THAT the 0W-5L Lions are tied with Jacksonville for the worst W-L record in the NFL and the Lions almost beat the 9ers? Does Steve Young admit the 9ers are a 2W-3L team?
Does Steve Young claim that JG can execute all of KS's
playbook, or without a successful running game and the
D keeping the 9ers in the game, it's doubtful JG could win more than 2-3 more games (and that's being generous)
OK, if we stipulate all those "qualifiers," then I guess JG is a..."quality starting quarterback"....But as Cosell says, it's a "very subjective question, because JG has proven he was a quality starting QB in
2019 When he wasn't on IR!
I wonder if either Cosell, or Steve young would be kind enough to tell 9er fans, how many games does JG
have to lose before he's no longer, in their opinion, considered a quality starting QB...I'M ASKING FOR A
FRIEND....
I think he's 24-8 as our starter, right?
DeleteRazor: "I think he's 24-8 as our starter, right?"
DeleteRECAP OF JG'S "QUALITY STARTING QB time with the 9ers:
So far in 2021, JG's won 2 games and lost 2. After the bye, 9ers play the Colts (1W-4L), The Bears (2W-3L), the Cardinals (5W-0L), then the Rams (4W-1L). If they lose to the Colts or Bears, 2021 will likely end up a .500 season (8W-9L or 9W-8L) and the 9ers miss the playoffs.
The 1st game in 2020 JG lost to Arizona. The 2nd game the 9ers beat the NYJ but JG missed the 2nd half with an ankle injury. JG missed the next 2 games against NYG and Eagles. He started in a loss against Miami and was benched at halftime.
The next two weeks JG beat the Rams and NE.
Week 7: In a loss against the Seahawks JG re-injured his ankle, was placed on IR and missed the rest of the season. (JG's 2020 season 3W-1L)
The 9ers 2019 season. The only year JG was a "quality starting QB, with 13W-3L regular season, + 2 playoff wins and a SB loss.
2018 season: Garappolo played the first 3 games of the season beating the Lions, but losing to the Vikings and KC. He then spent the rest of the season on IR Beathard and Mullens started the last 13 games of the
season
2017 Season: Garoppolo was traded to the 49ers near the end of the 2017 season. He helped revitalize the 9ers, a 1W–10L team, by winning the five remaining games of the year.
Geep many of your points here are wrong.
Delete-Does Steve Young qualify his backing of Cosell, by admitting the 9er D has carried the offense (JG) in the 2 games they've won?-
The defense didn't help win the Detroit game in fact they all almost lost it.
-So far in 2021, JG's won 2 games and lost 2.-
In all 4 games Garoppolo has started this season his final play was made with the 49ers winning in 3 of the 4 and tied in the other and that was only because they lost the kicker to injury right before the game. He did his part to win the Packer game which was lost by the defense, and if he hadn't suffered the calf injury there is a very good chance the Niners win against the Seahawks and Cardinals.
-The 1st game in 2020 JG lost to Arizona-
So the blocked punt that led directly to an AZ TD and the 9er RB getting stopped on the Goal line on 4th down had no bearing on it? The defense giving up 180 yards on the ground didn't play a part? Garoppolo wasn't great that day but played well enough to win especially considering his top 3 WR's that day were Kendrick Bourne Dante Pettis and Trent Taylor.
-The 2nd game the 9ers beat the NYJ but JG missed the 2nd half with an ankle injury.-
So you are giving him a L for the game he left at halftime a couple of weeks ago against Seattle that was tied but won't give him credit for a game he was winning when he left at halftime against the Jets? That says it all.
You and 49reasons really can't see this objectively. Garoppolo is winning at a 70+ percent pace as the starter for this team. Everybody else has failed miserably including Lance last week through really no fault of his own as he's not ready to start yet. You guys don't like JG, that's fine you are entitled to your opinions but when you misrepresent information and facts you look really bad. Like a fan with an agenda who really isn't paying attention to what is happening on the field.
-The defense didn't help win the Detroit game in fact they all almost lost it.-
DeleteThis should have read: The defense didn't carry the offense against Detroit.
JG was also a pretty big part of the reason the 49ers have struggled to score points in the first half of games this season, which was a key factor in losing the Packers and Seahawks games.
DeleteAlso, his win % the past two seasons is 50%. A great run on a SB roster led by an elite level defense gives his career win % a big boost.
If you want people to be objective, it goes both ways.
True but its not that he played wonderful he was carried a lot out by our defense and lot of games where close and in the big game he folded.
ReplyDeleteAgain I take umbrage with your statement here. Garoppolo didn't fold in the big game. He missed a deep ball to Sanders. He also had played a really good game for most of it and had a double digit lead in the 4th quarter.
DeleteWhether you guys like a player or not at least try to be objective when you throw out comments about them.
Scooter/Robber/Notanexpert
Delete* Some people say tomato, some say tomato....
* Some people say potato, some say patato.... we can argue semantics until the hell freezes over, but the bottom line is the 9er FO made the decision to
move on from JG. We can argue why, but like it or not, Lance is the future. We can argue he should, or we can argue he should not be the starter. If the 9ers manage to win enough games to make the playoffs (with JG), then I'll be forced to accept reality and eat crow!
If the 9ers end up with a losing season, then those who believe JG should start, not Lance, will be forced to eat crow themselves.
* "Garoppolo didn't fold in the big game. He missed a deep ball to Sanders." Yes he did and we all know his limitations. He's not capable of completing passes to his receiver, over 20 yards on a consistent basis. Nor is he capable of completing passes over 20 yards to the sidelines. The majority of his completions are over the middle and yet he still misreads coverage, throwing an INT (or 2) in too many games.
" He also had played a really good game for most of it and had a double digit lead in the 4th quarter."
Here I agree with you with respect "FOR MOST OF THE GAME." Yes the D let KC score..BUT when it was crunch time in the 4th QTR, JG was incapable of scoring. You can call that what you want, but it is what it is!
And a FACT Scooter points out, JG's win % the past two seasons is 50%.
SO HERE'S A QUESTION FOR ANYONE THAT CARES TO ANSWER:
How many games do the 9ers lose this year, before KS decides to cover his back side and get Lance more reps to get him ready for 2022?
Notanexpert i say what i see./
ReplyDelete